The Weekly Debate: #4 (Revised)

[Dylan P.]

Let's start by giving a big hand to last weeks Debater of The Week. TOYROBOT. He displayed an excellent show of opinions and really made some good points. So good job.
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So as many of you know the original question 4 was closed so I am going to have to give you this question submitted to me by a fellow member.

We have all heard the stereotypes that magic is for nerds yet tons of people love to watch magic when the time arises. So people seem to like watching magic but think it is for nerds? Here is the new question...


"WHY DO SOME PEOPLE LIKE MAGCI WHILE OTHER PEOPLE BELIE THAT IT IS FOR NERDS?" Submitted By: BlahBlah
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I think that a ton of TV shows give the false ideas about magicians being nerds. For example, did anyone ever see that movie with Owen Wilson. The one where he is a body guard for those nerdy kids. Well, one of those kids was a magician. I think that people get these false ideas about us but can change their minds when they see someone like David Blaine or Criss Angel ( Hey looks like Angel is good for something.)

I will be posting up a couple of stories from this school year so far and about how much my popularity has boosted. It just proves that I am not a nerd.


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DEBATER OF THE WEEK: (To Be Announced)
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Got an idea for a debate question? PM it to me...
Dylan P.
__________________

 

[tally-ho]

i think when people hear the words im a magician, they instantly think oh he spends hours upon hours alone playing with cards or he must not have friends because he is too busy practicing. as for them changing their mind when they see blaine or angel, i think that is completely wrong. their idea of a magician not being a nerd changes when they see that you are also a normal person who can do magic. if that makes any sense.

 

[brad]

Magic does have a stereotype of a guy in a suit pulling rabbits out of top hats at a birthday party. In my opinion, Magic has moved from the stage of smoke a mirrors and things we cant see beyond the curtain, to a more up close and personal relationship with the spectator. This is an artform like any other, dancing, painting, etc. People that call us nerds for doing magic are usually jealous and too impatiant to learn it themselves. Believe me, every one that sees you do magic wishes they had the ability. I've gotten two of my friends into magic that had the same mentality as the haters and hecklers. They have both in the past given me crap for doing magic. I taught them a snap change. Every single time they see a deck of cards they are dying too show someone. I met my girlfriend at a party filled with the numerous amounts of douches and C-blocks that frequent. I had something the other D-bags didn't have the ability to do. Blow her mind away. Not so nerdy in my opinion.

 

[visualartist]

Well there does exist a few people,the heckler type,(mostly men) that say things like "do you just spend hours practicing this stuff?" or things like that.
But actually now-a-days people(teenagers especially) dont see as magicians as nerds because of criss angel and david blaine.And possibly cyril takayama if they know him here in america.
They brought a more modern look to magic which makes it appear "cool".
So now the whole nerd concept has really no merit anymore.

 

[Morgan B]

TOYROBOT won for best poster last week - I am boycotting these "weekly debates" - but I will say this on the topic:

It is not that some people think magic is FOR nerds - they think YOU are a nerd...because, you, like MANY magicians have NO social skills...and need magic to hide behind the lack of personality that exists in your "outside of magic" persona.

The people that like magic...don't worry - their image will soon be destroyed by the awkward teen that interrupts their meal to see the most poorly constructed and lack luster version of ACR.

Dylan - you have turned me off the debates...casting pearls...your reason for picking "debater of the week" is about as logical as trying to be a moderator within the moderation....I have an award..."The award for post that killed the entire thread".....drum roll...Dylans last post. (Audience claps...Dylan stands stunned at the sound, as it is unfamiliar turf for him to hear audience approval....he then pees himself).

Jokes aside - I have met MANY magicians over my life...the best ones are the guys that I would want to hang out with, even if they DIDN'T do magic....odd, that it correlates with being a TALENTED magician on every level - HOWEVER, I have met FEW in ratio....I meet more knobs than anyone of real worth when it comes being an enjoyable person to know.

In short - no matter how good at magic you are - if you have no social skills....it is NO wonder people see magic as something for "nerds" to hide behind...when you can't offer anything in terms of social graces - but you run a forum discussion...within a forum discussion, so who cares!

MY SWORD IS PLUS 4 AGAINST DWARFS!

 

[toyrobot]

I'll admit it. I bribed him. Good IT is hard to come by these days, I can't help it if I've got the hook-up.

Ahh, puns. Especially bad ones.

 

[adjones]

Although I am what people would classify as a "geek or nerd" (I don't look like one at all, but I'm totally into technology, science... magic... pretty much all the things normally considered geeky or nerdy), I don't really come across that way, I don't think. And I certainly don't think magic makes me more of a geek or a nerd. As of right now, I don't really perform for strangers- especially people I'm interested in knowing and becoming friends with... at first, anyway. I want them to get to know me, and want to become friends with me, instead of just wanting to be around me to see my newest "cool trick".

As usualy, I've managed to not really answer the question, but kind of veer of course and talk about me. Oh well. Maybe I'll win "Master Debater of the Week".

 

[blahblah]

i dont think people think magic is for nerds...

I think magciains think that people think that magic is for nerds... I mean when you see a really juggler that juggles like 5/6 balls then you dont think "hes a nerd" you think "wow", when you see an awsome band you dont think "they must spend all their time practicing" even if they do, you think "wow thats awsome", if you see an awsome magician you dont think "he must waste his time practicing" you think "wow, thats awsome" and you might scream/laugh/shout or whatever.

 

[Dylan P.]

TOYROBOT won for best poster last week - I am boycotting these "weekly debates" - but I will say this on the topic:

It is not that some people think magic is FOR nerds - they think YOU are a nerd...because, you, like MANY magicians have NO social skills...and need magic to hide behind the lack of personality that exists in your "outside of magic" persona.

The people that like magic...don't worry - their image will soon be destroyed by the awkward teen that interrupts their meal to see the most poorly constructed and lack luster version of ACR.

Dylan - you have turned me off the debates...casting pearls...your reason for picking "debater of the week" is about as logical as trying to be a moderator within the moderation....I have an award..."The award for post that killed the entire thread".....drum roll...Dylans last post. (Audience claps...Dylan stands stunned at the sound, as it is unfamiliar turf for him to hear audience approval....he then pees himself).

Jokes aside - I have met MANY magicians over my life...the best ones are the guys that I would want to hang out with, even if they DIDN'T do magic....odd, that it correlates with being a TALENTED magician on every level - HOWEVER, I have met FEW in ratio....I meet more knobs than anyone of real worth when it comes being an enjoyable person to know.

In short - no matter how good at magic you are - if you have no social skills....it is NO wonder people see magic as something for "nerds" to hide behind...when you can't offer anything in terms of social graces - but you run a forum discussion...within a forum discussion, so who cares!

MY SWORD IS PLUS 4 AGAINST DWARFS!

If you are saying that I have little to no social skills then you are mistaken my friend. Everyone in scool knows me, by neme, simply because I did my own variation of an ACR at lunch one day. Believe me, I can understand how lack of social skills can totally ruin a trick and your reputation. Trust me though, I am a very funny guy and have great social skills. I do however, see your point and totally agree with you that no social skills is quite a problem.

Thank you for your thoughts,
Dylan Piknick

 

[spades]

iI mean when you see a really juggler that juggles like 5/6 balls then you dont think "hes a nerd" you think "wow", when you see an awsome band you dont think "they must spend all their time practicing" even if they do, you think "wow thats awsome", if you see an awsome magician you dont think "he must waste his time practicing" you think "wow, thats awsome" and you might scream/laugh/shout or whatever.

The idea of someone showing you a card trick can be seen as nerdy. I have met people who just look at you like 'Oh God... This is going to be lame'. It's about showing them it's not, getting that moment of astonishment. The idea can be looked on negatively but then the practise of it normally isn't.

Magician=nerd, as has been said has been bought on by influence from the media, changing attitudes, whatever reason you can think of. As someone said you need to have your own personality, be liked because of who you are. When you only see someone to do a trick or talk about how long you've been doing magic thats not cool, when you have a good relationship with someone and you show them a trik every now and again, that is. Obviously this doesn't apply when meeting strangers for the first time in a performance situation.

Anyway, ^^ramble, I hope some of you work out what my points were and what I wanted to say, because I don't have a clue.
-S♠

 

[visualartist]

TOYROBOT won for best poster last week - I am boycotting these "weekly debates" - but I will say this on the topic:

It is not that some people think magic is FOR nerds - they think YOU are a nerd...because, you, like MANY magicians have NO social skills...and need magic to hide behind the lack of personality that exists in your "outside of magic" persona.

The people that like magic...don't worry - their image will soon be destroyed by the awkward teen that interrupts their meal to see the most poorly constructed and lack luster version of ACR.

Dylan - you have turned me off the debates...casting pearls...your reason for picking "debater of the week" is about as logical as trying to be a moderator within the moderation....I have an award..."The award for post that killed the entire thread".....drum roll...Dylans last post. (Audience claps...Dylan stands stunned at the sound, as it is unfamiliar turf for him to hear audience approval....he then pees himself).

Jokes aside - I have met MANY magicians over my life...the best ones are the guys that I would want to hang out with, even if they DIDN'T do magic....odd, that it correlates with being a TALENTED magician on every level - HOWEVER, I have met FEW in ratio....I meet more knobs than anyone of real worth when it comes being an enjoyable person to know.

In short - no matter how good at magic you are - if you have no social skills....it is NO wonder people see magic as something for "nerds" to hide behind...when you can't offer anything in terms of social graces - but you run a forum discussion...within a forum discussion, so who cares!

MY SWORD IS PLUS 4 AGAINST DWARFS!

How can one be a magician(close-up especially since this site focuses on close-up) and not have social skills?
Its impossible.
You have to like going up and talking to people.
Magic has gotten people out of their shells.not the other way around.
The people who are still considered shy,i guess, are the kids who just started out in magic.

 

[Morgan B]

Haha - you can do magic and have no social skills...you honestly believe every magician has social graces - a large part of this forum is a perfect example on the opposite!

"You have to like going up and talking to people"...ummm, half right...the other half? They have to like talking to you!
"Magic has gotten people out of their shells" - some people shouldn't be ALLOWED out of their shells...and this statement proves that they are hiding behind the magic - magic doesn't make you a more enjoyable person to be around!

This isn't about shy kids and outgoing - it is about enjoyable company and awkward/annoying company...but enough about Dylan. Joking...I am not smiling.

Seriously though - the "NERDS" (and I dislike that word) aren't the shy ones...NOR are they considered the ones that are easy picks..."the Erkel look"...I am talking about the guy that walks up to a table thinking he is enjoyable....but he is not...he is actually making people feel uncomfortable...and they tip him JUST to get him away.

You don't have to look like a nerd, to be one - the sad part is...most don't know when they ARE a nerd...but enough about Dylan. Just kidding Dylan...I am sure you are not a nerd...nerds don't sit around the computer coming up with "weekly debates" in which the nominate a poser...I mean POSTER for NO explained reason but your teenage mind decided on it....perhaps you can pull names out of a hat...it would make as much sense...enough of that tangent.

Here is the thing - in EVERY hobby...you find "NERDS" - but in ours...it seems to attract those that NEED magic to stand out. It isn't an addition - it is THE addition...if you can be a social person without magic, this may be a concern. Sure...it brings you out of your "shell"...but are you equiped to be out of the shell? IF so, why do you need magic to be more social?

Short lived boycott I guess...

 

[adjones]

Haha - you can do magic and have no social skills...you honestly believe every magician has social graces - a large part of this forum is a perfect example on the opposite!

"You have to like going up and talking to people"...ummm, half right...the other half? They have to like talking to you!
"Magic has gotten people out of their shells" - some people shouldn't be ALLOWED out of their shells...and this statement proves that they are hiding behind the magic - magic doesn't make you a more enjoyable person to be around!

This isn't about shy kids and outgoing - it is about enjoyable company and awkward/annoying company...but enough about Dylan. Joking...I am not smiling.

Seriously though - the "NERDS" (and I dislike that word) aren't the shy ones...NOR are they considered the ones that are easy picks..."the Erkel look"...I am talking about the guy that walks up to a table thinking he is enjoyable....but he is not...he is actually making people feel uncomfortable...and they tip him JUST to get him away.

You don't have to look like a nerd, to be one - the sad part is...most don't know when they ARE a nerd...but enough about Dylan. Just kidding Dylan...I am sure you are not a nerd...nerds don't sit around the computer coming up with "weekly debates" in which the nominate a poser...I mean POSTER for NO explained reason but your teenage mind decided on it....perhaps you can pull names out of a hat...it would make as much sense...enough of that tangent.

Here is the thing - in EVERY hobby...you find "NERDS" - but in ours...it seems to attract those that NEED magic to stand out. It isn't an addition - it is THE addition...if you can be a social person without magic, this may be a concern. Sure...it brings you out of your "shell"...but are you equiped to be out of the shell? IF so, why do you need magic to be more social?

Short lived boycott I guess...

Agreed times like... infinity? Maybe? Yeah, that should do it. Especially the part about the Master Debater... ahem... Debater of the Week, sorry.

 

[Dylan P.]

I don't just sit on the computer and think of these things. More than half of the time someone sends me an idea for the next weeks question so I really don't have to do any work whatso ever. The times when I do have to write the question myself I simply think of a question that could be contreversial between different magicians. I.E:

"Is Criss Angel Cool?"
"Are Custom Cards Worth The Cash?"
"Which type of magic is better? Coins, Cards, mentalism, Other?"
"Why Does David Blaine Always wear Jeans?!?!?"

All of those questions took less than one minute to think up and less than a minute to write. I don't think that 2 minutes is a large junk of my life. I hate when people say life is short. Life is the longest thing you'll ever do!

Also, the debater of the week thing is kind of dumb I must admit and I wasn't thinking clearly when I wrote it (I had huffed some spray paint before-hand. Just kidding.) So I will be putting up a poll by tomorrow to see who wants the debater of the week to stay and who wants it to go.

By the way the only reason I'm on the computer everyday is because I have to write a paper for school every week. It has to be like 5 pages long single spaced. So, I write some of it each day and when I am on the computer typing I come on here too. Even right now I have just finished my paper.

So sorry if you hate me. But honestly man, if you hate me just say it don't beat around the bush.

Dylan Piknick

 

[Morgan B]

I don't hate you...

Nevertheless, what I do hate is the empty string of topics that have empty room for growth...then an arbitrary "winner"...as if everyone else's posts are worthy of praise. I thought in the last debate, there were a few others worth a nod.

Lastly, maybe take more than "a few minutes" to think of a topic, and we could talk about the more interesting things...rather than the superficial - "What is your favourite deck" - these things have become fillers of a forum...or the things I have to skim through in hopes to find an interesting and intelligent topic/thread!

It looks like you are a normal guy Dylan...your average guy...isn't NERD another word for NORMAL?

I KNEW IT!

 

[adjones]

I don't just sit on the computer and think of these things. More than half of the time someone sends me an idea for the next weeks question so I really don't have to do any work whatso ever. The times when I do have to write the question myself I simply think of a question that could be contreversial between different magicians. I.E:

"Is Criss Angel Cool?"
"Are Custom Cards Worth The Cash?"
"Which type of magic is better? Coins, Cards, mentalism, Other?"
"Why Does David Blaine Always wear Jeans?!?!?"

All of those questions took less than one minute to think up and less than a minute to write. I don't think that 2 minutes is a large junk of my life. I hate when people say life is short. Life is the longest thing you'll ever do!

Also, the debater of the week thing is kind of dumb I must admit and I wasn't thinking clearly when I wrote it (I had huffed some spray paint before-hand. Just kidding.) So I will be putting up a poll by tomorrow to see who wants the debater of the week to stay and who wants it to go.

By the way the only reason I'm on the computer everyday is because I have to write a paper for school every week. It has to be like 5 pages long single spaced. So, I write some of it each day and when I am on the computer typing I come on here too. Even right now I have just finished my paper.

So sorry if you hate me. But honestly man, if you hate me just say it don't beat around the bush.

Dylan Piknick

So the gist of that post is:

The Master Debater is pointless, and you agree it should be done away with, but you're going to hold a poll... "just in case". You also spend like less than 10 seconds on the questions, showing you personally don't care about the debates and the content of the questions- so why should we?

 

[Dylan P.]

Yes I am just an average ordinary guy who happens to be a magician. Please, if you have a better idea for topics then please PM them to me. That way, we do not run the chance of having me come up with a poor topic.

Also, The debater of the week was pointless. But I did create it and I will not delete it if the majority of people like it. So there is a poll to vote in now. It ends tomorrow.

Dylan P.

 

[Morgan B]

Why would be PM them to you, when we could just create a thread ourselves? Honestly?

I find it funny how you are trying to be a go between for the posters and their topics.

How about...the forum goes back to normal - people post topics, and we can dicuss them. If you have a good topic to post, or some thoughts about magic - then post...but your filler debates are just that.

I have enjoyed your posts that contain insight, but lately - you are just adding to the clutter.

 

[Dylan P.]

Why would be PM them to you, when we could just create a thread ourselves? Honestly?

I find it funny how you are trying to be a go between for the posters and their topics.

How about...the forum goes back to normal - people post topics, and we can dicuss them. If you have a good topic to post, or some thoughts about magic - then post...but your filler debates are just that.

I have enjoyed your posts that contain insight, but lately - you are just adding to the clutter.

Most people don't find my insight worth while at all so it gets me frusturated. Thank you for telling me that. That is why I started these because if people didn't like my advice but liked to argue then they could come here.

Morgician, bear with me here. Wait until Friday and then read the new question (Question 5). I have had some really good question sent to me via Email. And I nkow that they are going to spark some good arguments because guess who sent them to me? ...... STEERPIKE!

That's right. Me and him are somewhat buddies and I am currently reading his Ebook he sent me about scripting routines for tricks and developing your own character. I will post reviews soon. It can be bought for 5 bucks just contact him.

But anyway, you all know that Steerpike was great at causing arguments so wait until you see the questions he sent me. There are about 5 total and they are bound to spark a ton of people interest.

I'll make you guys a deal. Stick with me for 2 weeks and take a look at some of Steerpikes debate suggestions and if by the end of these 2 weeks then I will stop with the debates. So after Question #7 if the majority is still unhappy I will stop. But take a look at the new awsome questions first. Deal?

Dylan P.

 

[Morgan B]

Again Dylan - you are acting as a GO between...I love Steerpike's thoughts, but would rather have them attached to his name, than yours...but if he is okay with you representing his ideas...that is between you and him.

Honestly Dylan - I am glad you are posting, but once again, YOUR posts...aren't YOURS. It's like me posting a magic trick weekly...that was Ammar's...besides that it is considered exposure, it lacks originality! I would love to see an original thought by you...but...what do you need to be original for...you can have Steerpike think up ideas for you...which far excedes anything we can expect from you at this point.

Do what you want Dylan, I just find this clutter right now...as anything with your name on it...is not yours...but hey...way to contribute...I mean add to the stuff on here.

That being said - I look forward to hearing Steerpike's thoughts, under your name.


NIBALSALHA - I am not sure how to answer that...because the term "nerdy" I find cliche and wrong - so let's change the term to what is thought when that term is used - a social outcast or social retar...I don't want to use that word either...so - let's just talk about the concept.

EVERYTIME I hit up a convention, or a magic shop I meet a few good guys...however, I meet very few that I would want to be friends with outside of magic. This isn't about being "cool" or "uncool", but I find many magicians (people in that matter) to lack certain social skills and understand social cues.

NOT ALL MAGICIANS - but I find these things are very common in the "circle" of magic:

- Big egos and name dropping about people that don't matter outside of the circle...imagine listening to two scientists argue over a concept...and say, "well, I met Roger Revelle and he said that carbon dioxide will not continue to be absorbed by the ocean" - and at least scientists can help change the world....WTF can a magician do? Card tricks...great.

Magicians that often have bad acne...bad breath...poor hygiene...again, not all, if you are around the circle...we all know "that guy".

- Magicians that don't know when to leave people alone, or how to approach them - think that magic is a good way to pick up girls - again hiding behind their lack of personality to meet people with magic! Not saying it doesn't work...but it's sad when that is the focus...and perhaps "nerdy". Actually, in the movie "Saving Silverman" with Jack Black and Jason Biggs...they make fun of it, as a guy says, "Did that guy try to pick you up with a corny line...I am not like that...I USE MAGIC" - as he pulls out a small set of linking rings!

- Magicians that often do magic...then go home and play magic the gather, WOW, or other "nerd cliche" type games - I am not saying this is bad - but THESE hobbies attract a certain clientelle...stereotypes exist for a reason.

- Magicians that don't get that people aren't digging them - when people are quiet...it doesn't always mean they are stunned!!

- Magicians that are awkward - can't relate or talk about any topic outside of magic

In all honesty Nibal - the concept of "magic being nerdy" comes from the MANY AWKWARD...on many different levels forcing themselves on people so they aren't social outcasts anymore!! It makes me yearn for the days that these awkward teens would just wear all black, paint their fingernails black and listen to depressing music!

So - I am not sure I answered your question - or that all of mine is accurate - but I do know that I hear from "NON-Magicians" that step into a magic shop...or meet magicians - that they are "different"!

IF anyone went to CAM a few years back...how about the guy that bent a spoon...saying the magic words "SHOOTSAKA"...and wasn't making a joke. CRICKETS!!!

Just like when you walk into a comic book shop...you meet "different" people - I am not saying this is bad - but you HAVE to understand where the cliche of magic is for nerds comes from!