Performing with fancy moves...

[jok3r]

This thread was not to bash anyone. I understand, that people have differnt performing styles. There is right or wrong way. not all mentalist claim to have powers or supernatural abilities. I do not exactly consider myself to be a mentalist but I do have some mentalists qualities in my performance. Never do I claim to have powers, a sixth sense, or sell my soul to the devil. I tell people that what i am doing is an illusion, and that scams and cons are based on the same principals that I use. But I choose to use them for entertainment, while others use them for scamming. Besides the point. I guess what I am really asking is if you use flourishing in your performance then what is your performance like. How does it add to your magic, and is it possible it can take a way. is there such thing as too much flourishing and not enough magic?

Im sorry i wasn't saying you were bashing anyone, that was just me being tired of the bashing on other threads.

Not your necessarily

My flourishing addes a creditability, like pop said.
When i do some flourishes, people my age use the word legit.

"hey look at this this guys legit"

As for adults, they just seem ah struck that someone can do that with a deck of cards, because you don't really see that everyday.
Most people have never seen a sybil, or one handed cuts.

Ive never once had someone say "well hes just good with a deck of cards"
or "its because he can do all those things with cards"

now I do think about when im going to add a flourish in a performance.
or I do a few when i pull a deck out, just to let people know i know what im doing.

When i do a false cut, ill even say.
"Here wel give it a few fancy* cuts" Yodda yodda. something like that.

I feel like im just saying random thoughts as i think of them, which i am.
so i hope you understand where im coming from

 

[jok3r]

Dude, half his material isnt even his.

Generation Extreme was my first magic dvd, I have been practicing those routines for some time now, I agree his great with flourishes and with sleights but not all the stuff in that dvd is his.

Terry Lagerould helped him a lot with the routines.

Look I like him, I like his stuff. period.

Why is that so hard to understand?
Im not trying to make you like him.

 

[KeoSilver]

i really do not like the idea of flourishing getting mixed with magic.
Case in point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuJ3u0cNHNs

I know that some of you say that flourishing before performing a feat of magic disarms a spectator, but whatever happened to being a professional and talking to create a rapport with your audience?

Besides flourishing before you do magic sort of discredits you as a magician and puts you in the same league as those who have fast hands in the spectators mind. Unless that is what you are going for, I strongly feel flourishing or fancy moves that are meant to be seen by people hould stay away from the "Magic" Craft.

 

[jok3r]

i really do not like the idea of flourishing getting mixed with magic.
Case in point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuJ3u0cNHNs

I know that some of you say that flourishing before performing a feat of magic disarms a spectator, but whatever happened to being a professional and talking to create a rapport with your audience?

Besides flourishing before you do magic sort of discredits you as a magician and puts you in the same league as those who have fast hands in the spectators mind. Unless that is what you are going for, I strongly feel flourishing or fancy moves that are meant to be seen by people hould stay away from the "Magic" Craft.

so you dont use fans or ribbon spreads?

what do you think of dan and dave?

 

[JetEyeNight]

i really do not like the idea of flourishing getting mixed with magic.
Case in point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuJ3u0cNHNs

I know that some of you say that flourishing before performing a feat of magic disarms a spectator, but whatever happened to being a professional and talking to create a rapport with your audience?

Besides flourishing before you do magic sort of discredits you as a magician and puts you in the same league as those who have fast hands in the spectators mind. Unless that is what you are going for, I strongly feel flourishing or fancy moves that are meant to be seen by people hould stay away from the "Magic" Craft.

No offense, but if you're a card magician, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Flourishing ADDS credibility to your routine, it doesn't take away. It shows that your a master of your craft. If you're trying to imply that people will think you just have fast hands instead of thinking your really "magical".... THEY SHOULD! There is no such thing as real MAGIC. People know that what you're doing is sleight of hand, not that you really have magical powers. You want to show them you have skills, not that you're just another rube. The only person I know of actually pretends to have powers is Criss Angel, and I pray that he's not your role model.

 

[visualartist]

EDIT:Nevermind

 

[jok3r]

No offense, but if you're a card magician, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Flourishing ADDS credibility to your routine, it doesn't take away. It shows that your a master of your craft. If you're trying to imply that people will think you just have fast hands instead of thinking your really "magical".... THEY SHOULD! There is no such thing as real MAGIC. People know that what you're doing is sleight of hand, not that you really have magical powers. You want to show them you have skills, not that you're just another rube. The only person I know of actually pretends to have powers is Criss Angel, and I pray that he's not your role model.

FINALLY someone who understands.

i agree completely

 

[tally-ho]

There is no such thing as real MAGIC.

But you can let them believe. Isn't that the point of magic?

 

[Randy]

When you think about it. Flourishing doesn't disarm them. It would be like walking into a fight and then doing all these moves. The other person now KNOWS what to expect from you. As opposed to walking into a fight and looking like a bumbling idiot and then proceeding to kick all forms of ass. They wouldn't expect it out you.

When people see you do a Flourish (depending on what you consider a flourish.) they are not going to believe the impossible happened. Because they now know that if you can cut the deck 20x and then do a Sybil backflip monkey twirl move. That you MUST have controlled the card to whatever position in the deck.

Now Draven is entirely correct. IF your character/persona deals with being a card shark or somebody who has total control of cards. Then might be fine. Still tho you have to set your limits. You have to know WHEN to and WHEN not to flourish.

But if you want to appear as a regular guy and where the cards just do this themselves. Then you can't be a showboat.

Watch guys like David Williamson or Lennert Green. When you see them perform, Specially Lennert Green. If you weren't a magician, and you saw a guy who was fumbling around with the cards and having them be mixed completely up at random with no apparent control or sleight of hand. Would you believe that he could do the things he does? No, you most likely would not.

 

[KeoSilver]

so you dont use fans or ribbon spreads?

what do you think of dan and dave?

First of all from my understanding Cardistry/flourishing is the non magical manipulation of cards. Ribbon spreads and fans are for the most part used by magicians to convey hey pick a card. Unless of course you are using it in the context card manipulation Ie making card fans appear you know the type I am talking about.

 

[KeoSilver]

No offense, but if you're a card magician, this is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Flourishing ADDS credibility to your routine, it doesn't take away. It shows that your a master of your craft. If you're trying to imply that people will think you just have fast hands instead of thinking your really "magical".... THEY SHOULD! There is no such thing as real MAGIC. People know that what you're doing is sleight of hand, not that you really have magical powers. You want to show them you have skills, not that you're just another rube. The only person I know of actually pretends to have powers is Criss Angel, and I pray that he's not your role model.

I try to stay humble and poking my suggestions every now and then and maybe stating my opinion here and their. But now its time for a story,

I used to do free shows at the Boys and Girls Club of Kapaa in Hawaii. It was mostly kid show. I asked for a volunteer and had an eight-year-old come up as a volunteer. I asked for his name and he told me it. Proceeding I did a routine I liked to call fear light. Basically a Dlite making a spider vanish. I asked the kid what he feared he said the dark. I acknowledged his fear and then asked him "do you like spiders" He said yes and I would say something like "cool because there is one on your shoulder." A cartoonish spider I placed onto his shoulder attached with a bit of the scratchy side of Velcro.

I explained to him "I am afraid of spiders; do you know how I got over my fear?" The boy shook his head no. "I used a magical light which I keep here" Pulling a light from my pocket, I do a little dlite routine before I ask him to hold onto the spider in his hand, I place my hand over the spider bringing the light to our hands.

"You see this light actually scares away everything you fear, like how I am afraid of spiders." bringing the light to the back of my hand as I act like it passed through the top of my hand. I should mention that I clipped a reel pull on the spider,
"See look" I move my hand sharply away from his hand showing the spider had vanished between our hands.

Later on that night the boy came up and asked me if I could teach him how to do the light thing. I exposed the dlite gimmick but didn't tell him it was a gimmick I told him it is the fear be gone light. I shown him how to turn it on and off but also told him that in order for it to work properly he had to say to himself "I am safe their is nothing their." I sent him on his way and didn't really give a second thought. I was about to order another dlite from penguin magic from the same boys and girls club.
The parents of the boy came back and handed me an envelope. I asked what it was?

Apparently the kid was going through some sort of phase fearing the dark to the point it was keeping the parents up. I opened the envelope and found my dlite and fifty dollars, but most importantly a letter. The letter was a thank you note from the parents; the kid actually took my advice and went to sleep every night with it. He used a nightlight but then slowly didn’t use it and only the dlite. After a week he didn’t use the dlite anymore.
I had cured his fear of the dark with a simple gimmick most magicians throw away as a toy.

If that isn’t an example of magic trickery becoming real magic, then I do not know what is.

I am not a card magician, just a magician hobbiest now.

Peace,

The Fang


PS

Criss Angel isn't that bad of a magician.

 

[jok3r]

I try to stay humble and poking my suggestions every now and then and maybe stating my opinion here and their. But now its time for a story,

I used to do free shows at the Boys and Girls Club of Kapaa in Hawaii. It was mostly kid show. I asked for a volunteer and had an eight-year-old come up as a volunteer. I asked for his name and he told me it. Proceeding I did a routine I liked to call fear light. Basically a Dlite making a spider vanish. I asked the kid what he feared he said the dark. I acknowledged his fear and then asked him "do you like spiders" He said yes and I would say something like "cool because there is one on your shoulder." A cartoonish spider I placed onto his shoulder attached with a bit of the scratchy side of Velcro.

I explained to him "I am afraid of spiders; do you know how I got over my fear?" The boy shook his head no. "I used a magical light which I keep here" Pulling a light from my pocket, I do a little dlite routine before I ask him to hold onto the spider in his hand, I place my hand over the spider bringing the light to our hands.

"You see this light actually scares away everything you fear, like how I am afraid of spiders." bringing the light to the back of my hand as I act like it passed through the top of my hand. I should mention that I clipped a reel pull on the spider,
"See look" I move my hand sharply away from his hand showing the spider had vanished between our hands.

Later on that night the boy came up and asked me if I could teach him how to do the light thing. I exposed the dlite gimmick but didn't tell him it was a gimmick I told him it is the fear be gone light. I shown him how to turn it on and off but also told him that in order for it to work properly he had to say to himself "I am safe their is nothing their." I sent him on his way and didn't really give a second thought. I was about to order another dlite from penguin magic from the same boys and girls club.
The parents of the boy came back and handed me an envelope. I asked what it was?

Apparently the kid was going through some sort of phase fearing the dark to the point it was keeping the parents up. I opened the envelope and found my dlite and fifty dollars, but most importantly a letter. The letter was a thank you note from the parents; the kid actually took my advice and went to sleep every night with it. He used a nightlight but then slowly didn’t use it and only the dlite. After a week he didn’t use the dlite anymore.
I had cured his fear of the dark with a simple gimmick most magicians throw away as a toy.

If that isn’t an example of magic trickery becoming real magic, then I do not know what is.

I am not a card magician, just a magician hobbiest now.

Peace,

The Fang


PS

Criss Angel isn't that bad of a magician.

This pretty much has nothing to do with what we are talking about

and ribbon spreads and fans are flourishes

 

[KeoSilver]

Joker you missed the point because it wasn't directed to you, someone said there is no such thing as magic. What I shared with you was a magic moment that a spectator experienced.

Holy macorole whatever you are right ribbon spreads fans are flourishes. Will that keep you quiet?
Is that what you want to hear, that you are right? Well then their you go buddy, move on I stated my opinion on the topic and just because it isnt to your satisfaction doesn't mean its wrong.

 

[RDChopper]

I dont understand why people think its wrong if its not the way they do it.
(not pointing fingers at anyone personally)

Its the same narrow view of things, as it is in everyday life.

"well he doesn't believe the same thing i do about church, so he must be wrong. "

people can't just respect the way other people want to do things.

and....

I have no idea why people have to disprove others opinions it seems to be a common trend of magicians now a days and it is sickenning.

I fricking love irony.

 

[praetoritevong]

I try to stay humble and poking my suggestions every now and then and maybe stating my opinion here and their. But now its time for a story,

I used to do free shows at the Boys and Girls Club of Kapaa in Hawaii. It was mostly kid show. I asked for a volunteer and had an eight-year-old come up as a volunteer. I asked for his name and he told me it. Proceeding I did a routine I liked to call fear light. Basically a Dlite making a spider vanish. I asked the kid what he feared he said the dark. I acknowledged his fear and then asked him "do you like spiders" He said yes and I would say something like "cool because there is one on your shoulder." A cartoonish spider I placed onto his shoulder attached with a bit of the scratchy side of Velcro.

I explained to him "I am afraid of spiders; do you know how I got over my fear?" The boy shook his head no. "I used a magical light which I keep here" Pulling a light from my pocket, I do a little dlite routine before I ask him to hold onto the spider in his hand, I place my hand over the spider bringing the light to our hands.

"You see this light actually scares away everything you fear, like how I am afraid of spiders." bringing the light to the back of my hand as I act like it passed through the top of my hand. I should mention that I clipped a reel pull on the spider,
"See look" I move my hand sharply away from his hand showing the spider had vanished between our hands.

Later on that night the boy came up and asked me if I could teach him how to do the light thing. I exposed the dlite gimmick but didn't tell him it was a gimmick I told him it is the fear be gone light. I shown him how to turn it on and off but also told him that in order for it to work properly he had to say to himself "I am safe their is nothing their." I sent him on his way and didn't really give a second thought. I was about to order another dlite from penguin magic from the same boys and girls club.
The parents of the boy came back and handed me an envelope. I asked what it was?

Apparently the kid was going through some sort of phase fearing the dark to the point it was keeping the parents up. I opened the envelope and found my dlite and fifty dollars, but most importantly a letter. The letter was a thank you note from the parents; the kid actually took my advice and went to sleep every night with it. He used a nightlight but then slowly didn’t use it and only the dlite. After a week he didn’t use the dlite anymore.
I had cured his fear of the dark with a simple gimmick most magicians throw away as a toy.

If that isn’t an example of magic trickery becoming real magic, then I do not know what is.

I am not a card magician, just a magician hobbiest now.

Peace,

The Fang


PS

Criss Angel isn't that bad of a magician.

Nice post man. I enjoyed that.

JetEyeNight, you'd be hard pressed finding a magician who telegraphed his sleight of hand. To me that defeats the purpose of magic. Have you ever played with using emotional hooks in your magic? You can't get the best reactions without them. I don't mind flourishing personally.

But the point is not to show them you have skills. A juggler has skills. An acrobat has skills. What differentiates magic from that?

The point is to give them an experience. Which is a very different thing to believing in magic.

 

[jok3r]

Joker you missed the point because it wasn't directed to you, someone said there is no such thing as magic. What I shared with you was a magic moment that a spectator experienced.

Holy macorole whatever you are right ribbon spreads fans are flourishes. Will that keep you quiet?
Is that what you want to hear, that you are right? Well then their you go buddy, move on I stated my opinion on the topic and just because it isnt to your satisfaction doesn't mean its wrong.

im sorry im getting sick of this thread.

that was a good story.

 

[Jacob L]

But you can let them believe. Isn't that the point of magic?

Exactly, you give them a feeling that they just expericenced the impossible. The smiles I see on people's faces while I'm performing gives me the best feeling, I gave them an experience that they cannot explain but as simply incredible. It makes all the hours of practicing worth it.

walking into a fight and looking like a bumbling idiot and then proceeding to kick all forms of ass.

Love this

When people see you do a Flourish (depending on what you consider a flourish.) they are not going to believe the impossible happened. Because they now know that if you can cut the deck 20x and then do a Sybil backflip monkey twirl move. That you MUST have controlled the card to whatever position in the deck.

Watch guys like David Williamson or Lennert Green. When you see them perform, Specially Lennert Green. If you weren't a magician, and you saw a guy who was fumbling around with the cards and having them be mixed completely up at random with no apparent control or sleight of hand. Would you believe that he could do the things he does? No, you most likely would not.

Totally agree with this, I only give "fancy" cuts in between effects, and its usually just a drop cut or trinary cut. (the only ones I can do lol) but in the middle of a routine or effect, the only cut I use is a basic swivel cut or double undercut. They seem more natural and don't arouse suspicion (sp?). Lennert Green is one of my favorite magicians, I love his persona and stage presence, no one expects the effect to be successful,and he blows everyone away.

I try to stay humble and poking my suggestions every now and then and maybe stating my opinion here and their. But now its time for a story,

I used to do free shows at the Boys and Girls Club of Kapaa in Hawaii. It was mostly kid show. I asked for a volunteer and had an eight-year-old come up as a volunteer. I asked for his name and he told me it. Proceeding I did a routine I liked to call fear light. Basically a Dlite making a spider vanish. I asked the kid what he feared he said the dark. I acknowledged his fear and then asked him "do you like spiders" He said yes and I would say something like "cool because there is one on your shoulder." A cartoonish spider I placed onto his shoulder attached with a bit of the scratchy side of Velcro.

I explained to him "I am afraid of spiders; do you know how I got over my fear?" The boy shook his head no. "I used a magical light which I keep here" Pulling a light from my pocket, I do a little dlite routine before I ask him to hold onto the spider in his hand, I place my hand over the spider bringing the light to our hands.

"You see this light actually scares away everything you fear, like how I am afraid of spiders." bringing the light to the back of my hand as I act like it passed through the top of my hand. I should mention that I clipped a reel pull on the spider,
"See look" I move my hand sharply away from his hand showing the spider had vanished between our hands.

Later on that night the boy came up and asked me if I could teach him how to do the light thing. I exposed the dlite gimmick but didn't tell him it was a gimmick I told him it is the fear be gone light. I shown him how to turn it on and off but also told him that in order for it to work properly he had to say to himself "I am safe their is nothing their." I sent him on his way and didn't really give a second thought. I was about to order another dlite from penguin magic from the same boys and girls club.
The parents of the boy came back and handed me an envelope. I asked what it was?

Apparently the kid was going through some sort of phase fearing the dark to the point it was keeping the parents up. I opened the envelope and found my dlite and fifty dollars, but most importantly a letter. The letter was a thank you note from the parents; the kid actually took my advice and went to sleep every night with it. He used a nightlight but then slowly didn’t use it and only the dlite. After a week he didn’t use the dlite anymore.
I had cured his fear of the dark with a simple gimmick most magicians throw away as a toy.

If that isn’t an example of magic trickery becoming real magic, then I do not know what is.

I am not a card magician, just a magician hobbiest now.

Peace,

The Fang


PS

Criss Angel isn't that bad of a magician.

Great story, I enjoyed reading that. That just proves that a magician/entertainer or whateveryoupreferyourselftobecalled can indeed have a profound effect on someone by having them expericence that feeling of impossibility or just a magic happening, something inexplaiable. (except the obvoius example above, but you get my point.)


Now for my own imput on the original topic from the OP.
I do not perform flourishes that exceed a fan, spread, basic cuts (i.e. double undercut, swivel cut.) While performing a routine. To me it feels like the audience focuses more on the fancy aspect than the experience of the effect taking place, which sucks out the entertainment. After an effect, while they are reacting, if I'm just chatting with them, or thinking of another trick; THEN I might do one of the few flourishy cuts I do, primairly out of habit. Then they ask to see it again so I do a bit more "fancy" stuff, then proceed into an effect.

I get their attention back to the magic,and the not showyness by straight up emilinating all of that while performing magic; because that is what I am performing: magic. Not a card cutting show. If you entertain by flourishes, thats perfectly fine, sybil your heart out, but that is not my preference because to me it takes away from the ability of a performer if the audience is saying "look at how fancy he is." instead of "that just blew my mind! I pushed my card in and now its in his mouth!" or just straight up silence-possibly the best reaction you can get.

I do not fumble like Lennert Green because that is simply not how I go about doing things, I have an attitiude that I know what I'm doing, but not boasting about it or showing off with it.

To sum it up: I do not flourish while in a routine or effect because it takes away from the magical expericence and connection with the audience.

Your Boy,
Fez

 

[jok3r]

Exactly, you give them a feeling that they just expericenced the impossible. The smiles I see on people's faces while I'm performing gives me the best feeling, I gave them an experience that they cannot explain but as simply incredible. It makes all the hours of practicing worth it.

Love this


Totally agree with this, I only give "fancy" cuts in between effects, and its usually just a drop cut or trinary cut. (the only ones I can do lol) but in the middle of a routine or effect, the only cut I use is a basic swivel cut or double undercut. They seem more natural and don't arouse suspicion (sp?). Lennert Green is one of my favorite magicians, I love his persona and stage presence, no one expects the effect to be successful,and he blows everyone away.


Great story, I enjoyed reading that. That just proves that a magician/entertainer or whateveryoupreferyourselftobecalled can indeed have a profound effect on someone by having them expericence that feeling of impossibility or just a magic happening, something inexplaiable. (except the obvoius example above, but you get my point.)


Now for my own imput on the original topic from the OP.
I do not perform flourishes that exceed a fan, spread, basic cuts (i.e. double undercut, swivel cut.) While performing a routine. To me it feels like the audience focuses more on the fancy aspect than the experience of the effect taking place, which sucks out the entertainment. After an effect, while they are reacting, if I'm just chatting with them, or thinking of another trick; THEN I might do one of the few flourishy cuts I do, primairly out of habit. Then they ask to see it again so I do a bit more "fancy" stuff, then proceed into an effect.

I get their attention back to the magic,and the not showyness by straight up emilinating all of that while performing magic; because that is what I am performing: magic. Not a card cutting show. If you entertain by flourishes, thats perfectly fine, sybil your heart out, but that is not my preference because to me it takes away from the ability of a performer if the audience is saying "look at how fancy he is." instead of "that just blew my mind! I pushed my card in and now its in his mouth!" or just straight up silence-possibly the best reaction you can get.

I do not fumble like Lennert Green because that is simply not how I go about doing things, I have an attitiude that I know what I'm doing, but not boasting about it or showing off with it.

To sum it up: I do not flourish while in a routine or effect because it takes away from the magical expericence and connection with the audience.

Your Boy,
Fez

youve seen me perform

has m y foourishes ever taken anything away?

 

[Jacob L]

youve seen me perform

has my flourishes ever taken anything away?

Touche, and no they havent, but I believe that to be for two reasons:
1. It is from another magicians standpoint. (sub-points)
a. I can most likely appreciate the flourish more than a layman, I know how hard they are and the time it takes, and vice versa.
b. Because I know the effect and what is going to happen, I am able to view both the flourish and effect with the same respect, as I am not distrated by the flourish, although I can acknowledge and appreciate the incorporation of it.
plus I know you well, so we already have that connection, which brings me to my next point.

2. That is your personality.
a. you told me yourself you enjoy eye-candy, and that is perfectly fine, it suits you and you are good at it. You like all the flashyness and that, so obviously you will find a place for it in your routine.

I know you perform for people other than me and your family, but unfortunatly I havent seen you (except maybe once or twice-the movie theater, man that was awesome.) but you were not as good with your flourishes then as you are now, so they were not put in as much. So I dont know if the layman will feel distracted by the cut in the middle of the magical effect. If they are not distracted, thats awesome, keep doing what you are doing. If you feel they are, you can still flourish, just find a different place for them.

Hope you can see where I am coming from on these points. They are in no way bashing or putting you down.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[jok3r]

Touche, and no they havent, but I believe that to be for two reasons:
1. It is from another magicians standpoint. (sub-points)
a. I can most likely appreciate the flourish more than a layman, I know how hard they are and the time it takes, and vice versa.
b. Because I know the effect and what is going to happen, I am able to view both the flourish and effect with the same respect, as I am not distrated by the flourish, although I can acknowledge and appreciate the incorporation of it.
plus I know you well, so we already have that connection, which brings me to my next point.

2. That is your personality.
a. you told me yourself you enjoy eye-candy, and that is perfectly fine, it suits you and you are good at it. You like all the flashyness and that, so obviously you will find a place for it in your routine.

I know you perform for people other than me and your family, but unfortunatly I havent seen you (except maybe once or twice-the movie theater, man that was awesome.) but you were not as good with your flourishes then as you are now, so they were not put in as much. So I dont know if the layman will feel distracted by the cut in the middle of the magical effect. If they are not distracted, thats awesome, keep doing what you are doing. If you feel they are, you can still flourish, just find a different place for them.

Hope you can see where I am coming from on these points. They are in no way bashing or putting you down.

Your boy,
Fez

dude the movies were awesome.

but yeah i wasn't near as good as i a now.
As far as flourishes go.

and it does make a difference when you know whats going on.

I was at the party the other night, the one i told you about, when they wouldnt let me stop.

The whole reason i started was because it was getting boring so i pulled out cards and started flourishing, they thought that was the coolest thing ever.


Now a big point of mine is, i dont break into a sybil right in the middle of a trick, (except in one of brian tudors routines )

Im not doing random flourishes, there all for a purpose.
False cut, to show a card, to shoot a card out etc.

i think that makes a difference too