Derek DelGaudio - Quote + Discussion

[Robert//Livingston]

Hey guys, so Magic-Con was a huge success and I loved every minute of it.

Derek DelGaudio (one of my favorite magicians) did a couple lectures and had some really amazing notes for purchase (for only people at Magic-Con).

There's one point he makes right in the beginning of the notes that really stands out to me.

"Also... Don't learn the stuff in these notes (or in any notes, books, or videos) and then put video footage of you doing it on YouTube. It's lame and cheapens what we (magicians) do."

This quote really struck a chord in me. I thought about it, and reread it a few times. From the text I couldn't tell whether he was talking about video taping performances, or performing for the camera. Although, I can see how he could be talking about both. Magic isn't something that should be recorded, that's what makes it special. Spectators can't rewind what they just saw. They have no chance at analyzing or picking apart our performance.

Mike Weber went into this during one of his lectures as well. We shouldn't let our magic be dissected like a frog in biology. It should be shown to spectators and let THEM tell other people about it. Mike went into talking about Derren Brown (another one of my favorite performers) and how his Lottery prediction was picked apart and people posting videos 'exposing' it. Whether or not the person exposing is right, it gives people some kind of closure and closes off that sense of wonder.

This is definitely something I'd like to discuss, whether it be on this thread or through a PM. I'd like to get YOUR thoughts on the issue. Obviously I have my own opinions on the matter, but would love to hear what the T11 community can add to this.

~Robert

 

[Justin.Morris]

That's a great thought. It seems like there is a standard that magic should be recordable. I don't know how many times I have seen magicians say they won't even consider buying an effect if there is no full demo video, showing every angle, and full performance.

I really like the comments about Derren's lottery prediction. Very true.

 

[Liderc]

Me and Derek had a jam session with each other for a while at the castle a couple weeks ago.

great guy

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Justin - Very true about people not wanting to buy an effect without seeing everything but the method.

I'm one of many that post stuff on YouTube for battles, or post some performances. But after reading and listening to the lectures at Magic-Con it definitely clicked. That magic is best left in the minds of spectators, and not allowed to be broken down or analyzed. It really destroys any beauty we create in peoples minds, to have someone try to expose the methodology, whether correct or not.

Liderc - Yeah he is a cool guy haha.

 

[Robert//Livingston]

I would really love some feedback on the subject, or at least other peoples thoughts.

But, I won't bump this anymore if the thread is doomed to die.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

This thread was also posted on another forum, and it got a bit more discussion there. I was going to just copy and paste my posts from there, but it turns out I only responded directly to other posts, so it would make no sense here. I will try to summarize my feelings.

I think that if magic is easy to experience (IE: if there were a street performer on every corner) it woudl be slightly diluted in that it would seem less special, simply because it's so easy to find. As it stands, most people will see maybe one or two live performances of magic in their life. That makes each performance more memorable and more unique, because it's not easy to replicate.

However, if you could see magic every day, it would become commonplace.

Think of the cell phone. How amazing is the cell phone? Seriously. When I was growing up there were still rotary phones around. I remember when answering machines became common. I remember the first wireless phones coming out. They were the size of long bricks and had antennas you had to extend. I remember when an answering machine was something that you had to connect to a phone, it wasn't included in the phone itself. Now I have a phone that I can take anywhere, I can take pictures on it, I can record videos on it, I can play games on it, I can check my e-mail. It's friggin' amazing. And yet, I still take it for granted. It has become so commonplace for phones to do these things that I forget how incredible that technology is.

The same would happen with magic, if it were that common.

And YouTube videos do sort of push it toward being that common. If you can watch a video of a performer before you see them live, it dampens the experience, because you go into it knowing a little something of what to expect. If you went into it blind, you'd be amazed because you'd have no idea what this person could do. However, that little bit of knowing sits in the back of your mind like a toad, just waiting to remind you, "Hey, we saw this online."

But my views have changed a bit. Because I was reminded that the live experience is often so amazing (When performed well) that video just can't compare. I think, in the back of our heads, when we watch video we think, "That's a camera trick. There's no way they can do that in real life." Then we see them in real life and think, "There's no way they just did what they just did."

Now what I think that online videos have done is they have raised the bar. It used to be that anything could amaze people. Now you might actually have to be good to amaze people, because they're a little experienced. They've seen a thing or two, so you have to do something interesting and original to stand out among the YouTube/Internet crowd. You can still be an average magician pretty easily, but if you want to be really amazing, you're going to have to work at it.

I don't mind that at all.

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Christopher - I totally agree that magic can be diluted through watching it on the internet before seeing it performed live. Hopefully it never gets to the point that magic is commonplace. I fear the day that I approach someone, and they say "Oh he's doing this trick, I watched this the other day online". Luckily our art praises the good magicians that practice and respect the art, and filter out the bad magicians that learn effects and post videos of themselves performing (I use the term loosely) for a camera.

What I'm really wanting to hit on here, is the dissection and analyzation (?) of magic effects and/or performances on YouTube. Just today I decided to do a search on David Blaine, and every single video had someone on there explaining how he does an effect, or how they THINK he does an effect. I literally read a post that said "This effect is easy, he has a guy with a sniper that shoots the glass when David cues him"... and people believed it! I won't lie, the trick where he had the wine glass shatter completely floored me, but having people post methods that could no way exist gives some people SOME kind of closure and they lose any interest they had in the effect.

I'll go back to Derren Browns lottery prediction. It had some ridiculous ideas of the method (Green Screens, many cameras, video editing) and people just lost interest in the beautiful moment Derren had made.

 

[D ICE R]

I don't see too much if a problem of putting magic on YouTube if it is done well. However it is so often done poorly. I see the battle forums that state things like no editing that affects the effect. Whislt this is fine in our context as we are judging on presentation aswell as technical skill. In the real world I feel we should use the 'camera' tricks like hiding palms and things of that nature should be done to help make the YouTube audience experience the magic aswell.

 

[oldavid1]

In the real world I feel we should use the 'camera' tricks like hiding palms and things of that nature should be done to help make the YouTube audience experience the magic aswell.

Hmmm interesting...never thought of it that way. I see almost all Youtube perfomances of Card to Mouth using the same method of misdirection as if they're performed live...but it doesn't guarantee their "magical" feel.
Recently I watched Derren Brown's 3 card routine on Youtube. The misdirection definitely did not work for camera; does that mean misdirection effects wouldn't work for Youtube? I guess not.

 

[Robert//Livingston]

In the real world I feel we should use the 'camera' tricks like hiding palms and things of that nature should be done to help make the YouTube audience experience the magic aswell.

Let me see if I understand correctly. You're saying that camera editing should be used as misdirection for a YouTube audience? I think that could help, albeit cheating a little in my opinion.

What about this though... At Magic-Con, Juan Tamariz did a performance for everyone out in a hall. At least half the people had their cameras up recording his whole performance. I bet it took no longer than 10 minutes to get Juan's whole set up on YouTube, for everyone and their brother to dissect every one of his tricks.

Mike Weber talked about this for a whole lecture...

David Blaine said this is the EXACT reason that he hasn't been doing a lot of stuff for T.V.

 

[D ICE R]

You believe something is cheating? Isn't everything we do as magicians cheating. I mean 'your card goes back in the middle'.

 

[William Draven]

I can't say that I agree completely with DelGuadio. I think that statement is a bit pretentious. He's got a good idea, and it's certainly worth merit. But i think it's just been poorly thought through and worded.

Obviously, posting videos of half assed tricks that aren't well rehearsed, practiced, thought out, recorded, or scripted is a bad thing. That's what I think DelGuadio is trying to get at. Don't post videos of crap magic on the internet.

I would go as far as to say don't post videos of crap performances either.

However, I see no fault in posting videos of well presented, thought out, and practiced effects. As long as you give proper credit, where due, There I see no fault.

 

[Sidekick]

I am an open minded person in general and in magic. D ICE R has a point, its is not cheating but for example rather than having the camera with the performers hand with the palmed in card in view point the camera in a different angle, so viewers cannot see the hand in the palmed card position.

Learning something from trying to dissect a video is different to learning something when the teacher/mentor/lecturer/creator is teaching you step by step. So "magicians" who learn from dissecting other real magicians videos, would not be as good as performers who actually got taught the trick.
Making them bad magicians, even if there is only 1 good magician in 10 bad magician, that just makes the good magician, a rare treat that people when they see the good magician perform the experience would be unforgettable.


I say let them youtubers have theories, as long as its wrong I will be happy.
See thats just their opinion of how any effect was done, I do not believe in " all opinions matter" because well they are not half as accomplished magicians as some of the magicians here. Does an uneducated taliban have an opinion on quantum theory we should all listen to NO! (I love Ted.com)

See they do not know nothing but youtube exposure videos about magic so why should we worry or listen to them.

I think as long as people perform for a live audience decently its okay to be on camera, if its all well thought out and everything.

 

[Derek DelGaudio]

I was told I was being quoted here on the boards and thought I'd check it out.

Just so you have all the facts, the quote that that was mentioned is a "Note from the Author" (me) and appeared just under the copyright in my notes.

For clarity, the quote refers to any magician who learns something from a set of notes, books or a video, then puts video clips of them performing what they learned on the internet. It is as much of a copyright infringement and intellectual property issue, as it is a “we should keep magic special and secrets a secret” issue.

Below, you will find the full quote:

"© Copyright 2010 by Derek DelGaudio All rights reserved. No part of this manuscript may be reproduced without the written consent of the author.

NOTE FROM THE AUTHOR
If you reproduce these notes in anyway or put them on the Internet you are a Douchebag… Seriously.

Also… Don’t learn the stuff in these notes (or in any notes, books or videos) and then put video footage of you doing it on Youtube. It’s lame and cheapens what we (magicians) do."



The first part is pretty cut and dry. I do believe that if you reproduce anyone’s product without the proper consent of the author and/or artist you're a Douchebag (That may also be “poorly worded”, however, it’s the right word). It is theft, immoral and shows a tremendous amount of disrespect for what we all love.

I also believe that if you learn something from someone’s written word and YOU decide to put THEIR work on the Internet you are violating the intellectual property of the artist, undermining their choice to put something in print and cheapening our art as a whole.

If someone puts something in print and not on the Internet or a DVD, there is a chance that they did so for a reason. Believe it or not, there are still magicians in the world who make conscious choices about how, when, where and with whom they share information.

Hope this clears up any question as to the meaning of what I said.

I just think it’s really cool someone actually read my notes…

Derek

 

[AlfieWhattamMagic]

This is why David Blaine hasent had much stuff on Tv recently

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Derek,

Thanks for taking time to reply to this post.

I took your quote a little out of context by talking about recording performances and such. Although I felt it fit, in the terms that it cheapens what we do.

The notes are amazing... hard as hell, but amazing nonetheless.

I just felt something click when I read over your 'Note from the author'.