How Do You Feel About My Stories?

[Ben Long]

Here's some advice on writing, since I do it a lot.

Don't feel the need to get published. Hold on to all of your writing for a while. Don't lock yourself into a format (unless you're a poet writing sestinas, in which case you're already screwed for life anyway), it can be helpful and interesting to expirement with different narrative structures, but don't force it.

Write a lot--more than you think you need--hell, in most of my first drafts for high school, I'd usually go on for a page about how much I hated the class, the teacher, how stupid the assignment was, etc. But then out of all that raging thought, I'd come across amazing ideas that I could elaborate even more on. Revision is the process of stripping away the fat and streamlining (more or less). Do not be afraid to have eight or nine drafts. Don't be sad if your story ends up almost completely different than when it started.

And finally, when it comes down to it, I don't think you should be posting these in this forum (at least yet) because they're just not ready for an audience. It really seems to me that you're just putting them out for the sake of getting them read, which is not helping your writing ability at all. Hold on to them, work on them a lot, and keep going.

 

[Steerpike]

It really seems to me that you're just putting them out for the sake of getting them read, which is not helping your writing ability at all.

Pretty much the point I was trying to get at before.

The whole idea of keeping everyone in suspense until the appointed deadline is a common amateurish mistake. If you want to improve as a writer, you need critics who look at your work before anybody else.

 

[Dylan P.]

You guys don't get. I am writing these because I like writing and I like suspense. I am not trying to improve my writing ability that's why I take 3 English classes. I am doing this to have fun and then put it up here so you guys can see it and critique it. I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't considered clutter to the majority of people because I don't want these forums to be filled with clutter.

 

[Steerpike]

I am not trying to improve my writing ability...
... then put it up here so you guys can see it and critique it.

Make up your mind.

If you're not doing it to improve, then you wouldn't give a dog's bollocks about getting critiques.

 

[Dylan P.]

Make up your mind.

If you're not doing it to improve, then you wouldn't give a dog's bollocks about getting critiques.

Basically I am not trying to better my writing. But I put them here for everyone to read and say what they do and do not like. I may or may not ake those individuals ideas into consideration at a later time. Good?

We're still friends right Steerpike?
Dylan P.

 

[Ben Long]

You guys don't get. I am writing these because I like writing and I like suspense. I am not trying to improve my writing ability that's why I take 3 English classes. I am doing this to have fun and then put it up here so you guys can see it and critique it. I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't considered clutter to the majority of people because I don't want these forums to be filled with clutter.

You should write because you like to write. That's good. Why wouldn't you want to improve? You should also make an effort to write well, because there's enough crap out there as it is and nobody feels like reading more. Anyone can make up a story. Not anyone can write.

 

[Dylan P.]

You should write because you like to write. That's good. Why wouldn't you want to improve? You should also make an effort to write well, because there's enough crap out there as it is and nobody feels like reading more. Anyone can make up a story. Not anyone can write.

I do want to improve but these I do not need criticism for. For school papers and such it would be useful, but this is just for fun. Gives me something to do each week.

 

[Steerpike]

Basically I am not trying to better my writing. But I put them here for everyone to read and say what they do and do not like. I may or may not ake those individuals ideas into consideration at a later time. Good?

We're still friends right Steerpike?
Dylan P.

It's just a weird idea to me of submitting something for critique but taking criticism is optional. But that's me...

 

[Ben Long]

It's just a weird idea to me of submitting something for critique but taking criticism is optional. But that's me...

Yes, that does feel rather counter intuitive.

 

[Sinful07]

Kudos to foolzight for backing up what he said. these people are RARE online. They're like some sort of different breed. Still, respect for that.


And as many have said beforehand- You're countering yourself. unsure of the purpose of writing. Why do you write? why post it here? why not keep it locked there in your drawer? Why read it? why cant you just write and write. and forget about it?

See what you want first. Cause you seem confused. For instance, if you place your left foot forward, put all your body weight on that and simultaneously pulling your right foot to place it forward... (you get the idea. its called walking) You'll eventually get somewhere. doesnt matter where, but you're gonna get somewhere.

now to get somewhere you want to be, set a specific location to target, in your instance a goal or achievement. Some form of incentive system. Nursery children have gold stars, Athletes have medals/trophies. etc.

There's far too much going on here besides your stories. Let me elaborate on something i said earlier:

Also, may i add- i sense the urge to prove yourself and Frustration. Lots of it.

There seem to be an urge to prove yourself, not sure why. Maybe its your nature. Genetics? External factors? I cant be sure. But it does show on the way you write. not on your stories, but moreso on the way you constructed that first post.

For instance, this specific line:

So I just wanted to know where we all stand on the subject.

What is that? some sort of ultimatum? Read, or not read at all? Read, or i'll stop writing the stories? Why? What is the purpose? Its not a question for you to answer, its something for you to ponder.

Also may i point out, the Poll answers were generally quite negative. i was going to put an answer as "I dont read it, and dont mind it being there" or something similar, but i didnt want it removed. There was nothing there, or anything similar besides 'They are okay' which i cant really say, as i havent read the stories.


See where im getting at?

Cheers,

-Sin07

 

[RikAllen]

I still have to disagree, because I draw a line between intuition and half-assing it.

I can't argue what already works for you, and I can see where the two could cross lines.
With that said most stories I write come out first as broad ideas phrased as what if questions. What if your car broke down in the middle of a ghost town? What if there were bandits hiding out in this town?
Thus the story has begun, word it up a bit and see what happens.

Ernest Leiman wrote North by Northwest and Hitchcock told him that no matter what he wrote it had to begin with an assassination at the UN, it had to involve a crop duster chase somehow, and it had to end on Mount Rushmore. Anyone who says that movie wasn't one of the best written in film history probably can't even discern gold from yellow-colored Play-Doh. Ever since then, Leiman wrote all of his scripts with "Mount Rushmore" in mind.

Can't argue that. But that's not exactly plotting to the extreme. A beginning, one scene and an ending location. You know where it ends, but what's going to happen? Will the assassin be caught?

So many questions, and if you answer them all before writing the story, and make yourself keep to these bullets of plot, you basically force story into the plot so it works. Not to say this style hasn't ever been successful.

When it comes to writing intuitively, dialog I can see doing that. You should know your characters inside and out so you should be able to write their dialog and reactions without even thinking about it. If you actually need to stop and think about how your protagonist would respond to the accusation of murdering his wife, then you obviously didn't do that good a job on characterization.

I agree with these 100%.

However, a certain amount of planning is needed to come up with a good story. I somehow doubt that even King could pull "The Murder of Roger Ackroyd" out of his ass. The whodunit is a very specific example, granted, but it's pretty difficult to write one if you don't know from the very start who the murderer was, how they did it, and why.

He never claims to have just randomly pulled something out of his ass, as that would be something to behold.

King typically draws a few ideas and gets a premise. People get locked into their car and a raging dog is outside of it. (Cujo) He then writes a more detailed beginning, about the drive itself, and by the time the dog arrives the story is basically playing out in his head and he's just typing what is happening.

It's a personal preference that I typically reverse engineer the stories I write and then revise once the first outline is done. Then it's on to the drafts and even more revision. But I maintain that the importance of pre-production (for lack of a better catch-all) cannot be overstated.

I can't tell you to fix what isn't broken.

And having an outline helps a lot of people organize their ideas, but I try to limit my left brains use when writing.

I disagree to a point. You don't just sit down and poof! a story writes itself. But full blown outlines aren't always needed to write good stories.


-Rik

I'm tired...I should probably write when it's not 12:30am.

 

[Rabid]

The one very important point to remember about Stephen King, is that he loves to write. He feels - and is - compelled to write. He's not just someone that loves telling stories (as there are countless thousands and millions of people such as that), he is someone that HAS to write stories, no matter what form they may take; novels, novellas, shorts, screenplays, fact or fiction, comics...it's something that is out of his control.

He also has a gift for storytelling which many would love to have, even in a very diluted form, but very few do. He sees stories everywhere he goes. The most mundane setting can trigger his imagination and lead within hours to another fantastic short or the beginning of another wonderful novel. His characterization and real-world dialogue is second-to-none and his tales capture your own imagination straight-off-the-bat, no matter how slow the build-up.

It has often been quoted that the man could publish his shopping list and it would hit No.1. This is more than likely true and very few authors could have the same said for them.


I've been reading King since I was 10yrs old - so coming up for 25 years now - and he is by far my favourite author. My fiance is an avid reader too and she sees no point in his tales, preferring the musings of Jane Austin, Dickens and one Mr W. Shakespeare.

Silly girl.

Over that time I've seen him grow as a writer (the fact that his early stories and novels are exceptional notwithstanding) and by following his career as a devoted reader one thing is clear: He has learnt his craft over all that time, and is still developing it to this day.

It is very much like the practice of magic that is talked and heated over so often; practice and practice and practice and just when you think you can't practice any more...go ahead and do it some more.

Stephen King loves his craft like nothing else...as we all should love our craft. It is his love for it, his passion for it and his unstoppable desire to just 'do it' that makes him who and what he is.

'That' cannot be learnt, it either dwells inside oneself or it doesn't.


As with so many things, magic being one of them, one should just do what they love because they love it and to hell with whether others say they're good or bad. One practices magic because the desire to do so is so strong...otherwise there is little point and the part of oneself that has to go into every presentation will not be there and failure is the only outcome. So too with writing.

Do it cos' you have to do it...not because you want to.



Rabid

 

[Steerpike]

I can't argue what already works for you, and I can see where the two could cross lines.
With that said most stories I write come out first as broad ideas phrased as what if questions. What if your car broke down in the middle of a ghost town? What if there were bandits hiding out in this town?
Thus the story has begun, word it up a bit and see what happens.

I'm not trying to advocate against inspiration and the genesis of ideas. What I am opposed to (and I admit that I rather jumped the gun on this one) is the notion that a lack of planning creates purity.

It's a Pavlovian reaction in me, because I see it in every single medium. Filmmaking, music, comedy, you name it. There's always a group of people that shun learning the intricacies of the craft and planning things out because they think that half-assing everything is somehow a more pure and thus better approach.

I see it in the guitarists who refuse to learn music theory, I see it in the filmmakers who refuse to script dialog, in the writers who think Jack Kerouac's trance writing is the end-all of literature, and in the magicians who totally improvise their performances and suck as a result.

Again, it's a Pavlovian reaction, and I apologize for the hasty judgment. I just hope you understand where I'm coming from.

 

[Rabid]

I see it in the filmmakers who refuse to script dialog

You have to admit though, that Christopher Guest and his regular troupe have that down to a fine art.

Rabid

 

[Steerpike]

You have to admit though, that Christopher Guest and his regular troupe have that down to a fine art.

Rabid

I accept it from him because Christopher Guest knows how to make it work. The amount of work he and the other actors put in to developing their characters during pre-production means that the improv comes naturally. They don't have to think about it. Also, for a mockumentary, it greatly enhances the suspension of disbelief.

Most people however aren't willing to do that kind of exhaustive character construction in pre-production. And that's why they suck.

 

[Rabid]

Most people however aren't willing to do that kind of exhaustive character construction in pre-production. And that's why they suck.

Which film-makers in particular are you talking about? Any 'names' or are you speaking of independents?

Rabid

 

[Steerpike]

Which film-makers in particular are you talking about? Any 'names' or are you speaking of independents?

Rabid

I've long-since forgotten the names. Some film students I knew. They considered themselves avant garde. I considered them never-gonnabes.

 

[Rabid]

I've long-since forgotten the names. Some film students I knew. They considered themselves avant garde. I considered them never-gonnabes.

Oh right.

?

So...some film students you knew, does not constitute 'most' people. surely?

Rabid

 

[Steerpike]

So...some film students you knew, does not constitute 'most' people. surely?

I'm just saying that these people, this trend in thinking... they exist.

When I say most people, I really do mean most writers. Most people can't write and are not willing to put the effort into improving themselves. Especially with the advent of the internet as a publisherless medium. I'm not talking about just filmmakers. I'm talking about people in any creative endeavor.

 

[Rabid]

I'm just saying that these people, this trend in thinking... they exist.

When I say most people, I really do mean most writers. Most people can't write and are not willing to put the effort into improving themselves. Especially with the advent of the internet as a publisherless medium. I'm not talking about just filmmakers. I'm talking about people in any creative endeavor.

I agree with you that most people that think they can write, in actual fact...cannot. And also that the internet allows free reign to those that believe but do not have the necessary skills to back up that belief.

However. to put oneself in a position to criticize, then one should have the means to back it up. You understand what I'm saying?

You know me well enough to know that I hate critics in every form, as in my experience they are people who are willing to take money to give their opinion on subjects that they are ignorant to the processes of. This actor is rubbish, this accent is bad, this plot is not real....in every single case (or at least most of them) the critic is not and actor or a screenwriter or a novelist or...well, anything.

An english degree does not make a writer, nor an actor or a director etc.



This may have very well gone off on a tangent Steerpike. Apologies. I've just been out to dinner and am very drunk, in a bad mood and should really be in bed.


Rabid