How do you get disappointed with the method?

[Sherlock]

Beans, visual is not regarding card workers everywhere but rather the younger generation popping up that seems to have horrible youtube videos of "watch what I can do."

Some magicians really are lazy in terms of methodology and the such. When we were on tinychat beans, some times I couldn't stand listening to the people who were our age complaining. "The method is garbage" or "the method doesn't end clean" and this annoyed me to no end.

Even for a working performer in walkaround restaurant scene I ended dirty on a few effects and had to do a four or five second set up while switching tables. I either did it realy quickly or did it in front of the table while talking since it looked like I was just shuffling the deck or fixing it.

Some guys have incredible sleight of hand, really work on the moves and try hard but in terms of performing they are still lazy. It's like it doesn't have an instant reset OMGGGG, this trick is horrible I can't use it in the real world. Even though rarely do people actually perform in the real world, even so a reset should have no effect on them.

 

[Austin Fields]

Beans, visual is not regarding card workers everywhere but rather the younger generation popping up that seems to have horrible youtube videos of "watch what I can do."

Some magicians really are lazy in terms of methodology and the such. When we were on tinychat beans, some times I couldn't stand listening to the people who were our age complaining. "The method is garbage" or "the method doesn't end clean" and this annoyed me to no end.

Even for a working performer in walkaround restaurant scene I ended dirty on a few effects and had to do a four or five second set up while switching tables. I either did it realy quickly or did it in front of the table while talking since it looked like I was just shuffling the deck or fixing it.

Some guys have incredible sleight of hand, really work on the moves and try hard but in terms of performing they are still lazy. It's like it doesn't have an instant reset OMGGGG, this trick is horrible I can't use it in the real world. Even though rarely do people actually perform in the real world, even so a reset should have no effect on them.

I agree with you, and yes, the up-coming generation of magicians complains tons about it, and whilst it may depend on the venue you're performing at, for instance, the card workers at the magic castle tend to sit and do tricks almost non-stop for hours, and they do purely organic card stuff mainly because they have hardly any time to reset.

But aside from those rare occasions people still demand that a trick be organic, new, instant reset, impromptu and visual. However can you really blame them? These qualities are all the advertisements for tricks tell you that you should want, and that they have it. Is it the younger generations fault, or the older?

(By the way, what happened to those tinychats? I still bounce in and out but nobody is ever in)

~Beans

 

[Sherlock]

Well people need to think for themselves and ask, "Is that ten second reset really going to kill me." I have literally been sold on one commercial my whole life, but thought about it a bit longer and knew it was just bulls***.

If you can't think for yourself and will just go by what other people are doing then you have no hope at the time. You will still be the guy pattering on about what action you are doing wondering why nobody reacts the way others talk about.

Tinychat went dead for some reason, I stopped going because after a while it was just the same couple guys that were complete move monkeys and when we talked about the actual magic aspect it was almost just angles, and how quick the sleight needed to be done. None about building rapport, working hecklers, trying new angles on presentations, so I kind of stopped going.

 

[Austin Fields]

Well people need to think for themselves and ask, "Is that ten second reset really going to kill me." I have literally been sold on one commercial my whole life, but thought about it a bit longer and knew it was just bulls***.

If you can't think for yourself and will just go by what other people are doing then you have no hope at the time. You will still be the guy pattering on about what action you are doing wondering why nobody reacts the way others talk about.

Tinychat went dead for some reason, I stopped going because after a while it was just the same couple guys that were complete move monkeys and when we talked about the actual magic aspect it was almost just angles, and how quick the sleight needed to be done. None about building rapport, working hecklers, trying new angles on presentations, so I kind of stopped going.

Well as long as were speaking of rapport and psych concepts, as much as your plea is heard, people still are sucked into buying magic stuff that has all of those attributes. We are trained to shy away from challenging, risk-taking magic, it's all just re-enforcement really. And frankly, the only escape is to stay away from the internet for a while. I took a break to go back and read some fundamental books of card and coin magic, because the dvd's skim over only a couple basic sleights.

~Beans

 

[Sherlock]

Well, I have pretty much took a break from learning anything in magic. I plan on saving all my material once I get into the Navy and I'll be on a sub to unfortunately.

DvDs are usually just not done well, like 13 steps to mentalism wasn't really something I enjoyed personally because they really just go over the effects, however they did show off Osterlinds performances of course.

Yet I find myself enjoying the book more, so so so much stuff in it I still can't wrap my head around going through all of that.

 

[Mike.Hankins]

I agree with you, and yes, the up-coming generation of magicians complains tons about it, and whilst it may depend on the venue you're performing at, for instance, the card workers at the magic castle tend to sit and do tricks almost non-stop for hours, and they do purely organic card stuff mainly because they have hardly any time to reset.

~Beans

So why is this? Simple answer...the NEW generation of magicians grew up on sites like PenguinMagic and Ellusionist. Sites like Penguin don't really promote hard work and dedication to becoming a skilled magician. They had/have instant gratification downloads.

Even Ellusionist has changed quite a bit from when they first came out.

The question to ask is: How many of these up and comers read, study and practice material from books? How many have been to brick and mortar shops and have actually sat down with local real-working magicians to learn?

Most haven't, and rely solely on other YouTube videos for their "learning"...basically copying another crappy video from someone who didn't properly learn themselves.

These kids learn a new sleight from some crappy "explanation video" on YouTube and right away think that they can perform a routine that SHOULD take months and months of practice. On top of that, they learned the sleight incorrectly as well.

So when they see an instant download that looks AMAZING, and are not able to figure it out like they have with OTHER videos, well they get very upset and disappointed because NOW they have to actually WORK to make it look good.

Doesn't bother me one bit, I like to laugh at these kids every once in a while...

Dexter time...

Mike

 

[Mike.Hankins]

Well, I have pretty much took a break from learning anything in magic. I plan on saving all my material once I get into the Navy and I'll be on a sub to unfortunately.

Have fun in the military! 4 years in the Marines here...got out in 2006. Was in Iraq and yea I was in combat. Got recalled in 2008 but didn't deploy due to prior injury from Iraq...

You will have PLENTY of time to perform and learn magic. I had a lot of my crap over in Iraq with me.

Mike

 

[Austin Fields]

Will, you're very right

But another problem I just thought of is the lack of magic shops, I know E and Penguin were my only real resources as I was starting out because of the diminishing amount of magic shops in the area.

So are the online websites the cause for this? And if so then is there a direct connection between the (for lack of a better word) pathetic youth up coming and online magic shops?

Are online magic shops ruining magic?

~Beans

 

[visualartist]

Will, you're very right

But another problem I just thought of is the lack of magic shops, I know E and Penguin were my only real resources as I was starting out because of the diminishing amount of magic shops in the area.

So are the online websites the cause for this? And if so then is there a direct connection between the (for lack of a better word) pathetic youth up coming and online magic shops?

Are online magic shops ruining magic?

~Beans

Dont forget to mention theory11 itself. Good people here,but the advice of going to books FIRST and brick and mortar shops is buried..somewhere on the site. T11 should glamorize being a beginner a bit more and all the stuff that comes with it. Kids love glamour.Just look at them drooling over hyped up cards. Moths to a flame. But this time,towards something good.

If the online magic shops take the responsibility of advertising majorly towards beginners,then there wouldnt be a problem. But they dont. Online shops throw everything at you at once and put just a little "beginners here" box in the bottom corner of their site.
But im going to play devils advocate. You have to remember,the sites are a business. Not personal instructors/teachers. They have to make sells to thrive so they have to put their "best" products on home page for the intermediate and up guys/dolls. They cant let go too much of their need to sell or they will lose money.

Btw,this got off topic. just saying.

 

[Sherlock]

Theory11 was a amazing website when it first came out, artists were really talking and posting, the more knowledgeable users actually giving out their own advice.
Seems it has gone down quite a bit since then.

To further comment maybe there needs to be a new site, solely dedicated to beginners and intermediates who want to learn. Not a profit website, but something that people can actually go to that want to further themselves and take the next step.

Hmmm.....

 

[Austin Fields]

This relates to a much bigger picture described in the series (youtube it) Merchants Of Cool.

But the same overall idea applies here.

If corporations don't have standards, and their advertisements will go as far as they have to to sell their products, even if that includes handicapping the majority of the next generation of magicians. Then it may never end, and things will get worse until it runs directly into the ground.

~Beans