Passes Please

[chrystal baller]

I have been doing magic for a while but when I started out I made a huge mistake, I neglected to learn passes. Im pretty good at slight of hand but when i started out i watched a guy do some really good passes and I said Id never be able to do them and learned other methods of card control. This recently became and issue because I realized that my ACR is good but not great. Im all about being the best I can be, so I want to learn. Please post the name of your favorite pass and how long it took you to master it. Aditional advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Medifro]

Actually you made a good step by neglecting to practice the pass as a beginner. The pass is a sleight that take from months to years to get down, depending on the pass itself and your practice and dedication. The move is being killed by many magicians unfortunatly, youtube stands up as proof. Very rarely you'll find someone doing the pass and actually knows what he's doing ( I'm not such person by the way).

If you need it as an invisible control, for a beginner there are much better choices out there. Learn the mechanics of the pass, its huge fun, but please, please, please don't perform it until you get it down.

So, answering your question, the classic pass took me 3 years to get to performing level, and I'm no way a master of it. Hermanns took me a year.

(shamless plug) I wrote a big post on the move clearing the misconception I find here and in many other forums. Many experts agreed with me, so I think your time won't be wasted upon reading it.

Cheers,

 

[Sean_Raf]

Medifro: He's a pass man.

Seriously though, everything he's said is true. The pass is a very difficult move to master, I'm constantly working on mine and I am in no way shape or form anywhere even close to where it should be. I've been practicing it for 2 years now.

Listen to Medifro for advice on the pass and all things related, he'll be able to help you more than anyone.

If you're seriously interested in learning the mechanics, I hear VERY good things about the DVD "On the pass" with Richard Kaufman. But I personally don't own it so I couldn't say for absolute certain.

- Sean

 

[chrystal baller]

Thank you for your quick reply. I agree with your article on the pass. I kind of already knew most of that but I am glad that u clarified those misconceptions for others. I have used it as an invisible control before with brief eye contact as a kind of misdirection, but as i previously stated this became an issue because of my ACR. I want to be able to do a pass with a chosen card fase up. One problem for me in perfecting the pass is that I live in Central Illinois, which means that there are very few people that could help me in person. I may go to the one magician in town for advice, he may help me because I came into the resteraunt and performed tricks that i came up with myself and in doing that I may have gained some respect in his eyes.
To the rest of you out there, if you have any advice for me please post, Im not one to turn down help. Thanks!

 

[Medifro]

@Sean_Raf, thanks for the words man, although I'm sure I don't deserve them.

@chrystal baller, I didn't have any mentor ( actually only saw a live magic performance once in my life ), but to let you know, personal instruction is one very good way to learn it and definatly cuts down the time needed to get the pass down , especially if the teacher is experienced in it. Try to get him to teach it or at least demonstrate it to you from various angles ( important ones are: you looking on: front and above, front and below, above the shoulder, direct left and right ). Also, if you have magic friends, do the pass to each other, this is an extremely good way to learn its angles and to point out any flashes on the move. If you have a "test spectator", you could do this on him too ( which is what I did)

Problem with using the pass in ACRs, especially to show a card face up on top, is the amount of heat on the deck, which is why you need to have a good pass to do it. Also, not all passes fit the job ( usually its done by versions of classic passes, more commonly riffle or jiggle , and couple of Hermann versions )

However, you get one of the best effects you can do. In a pass VHS, Ken Krenzel does riffle passes that you'd swear its either camera trick or trick deck. Also, the move has a long history, studying it will make you go through many names in magic, expanding your knowledge and appreciation to the amount of work put in card magic.

Speaking of that VHS, I'll write down a thread soon that talks about the sources I know for learning the pass and post it in product reviews forum. Hope it helps you.

Cheers,

 

[Cliff|Bumgardner]

There is a card magician I know that has the best opinion on the pass, ever. He says that it will NEVER be invisible, so give that up right now. But, as far as passes go, the Dribble Pass or Midnight Shift are actually decently easy versions of the classic pass that you can use while working on your classic.


I worked on my classic for around 4 months before performing it. I have now been performing it for over a year with nothing but success. Call it dumb luck considering I used it waaay to early, or call it misdirection... I, personally, prefer the latter

 

[Medifro]

There is a card magician I know that has the best opinion on the pass, ever. He says that it will NEVER be invisible,

Wait, did he go all over the globe and watched all the passes magicians do? I'm sure he didn't. If so, how can he say that the pass cannot be done invisibly? I'm sure he didn't meet all magicians, no?

As I don't want to put another shamless plug to my blog (>_<), here is the part that talks about this misconception:

This is the kind of un-intellegent thinking that the likes of Vernon and Erdnase avoided. Erdnase clearly states that an invisible shift in terms on a card game is “yet to be invented“, he didn’t say that it can’t be done, showing that Erdnase is indeed someone who knows what he’s talking about.

The same can be applied to magic.

Many people base this opinion on their own experience with magicians they have met. You can’t say something as a fact based on that. I will even say that today, invisible passes are excuted. I saw a clip of Steve Forte doing what seems to me the Luis Zingone Pass ( spelling ) of Expert Card Technique, which looks like taking a tabled deck that has just been cut then dealing. Peter Duffie does an extremely good Riffle Pass, Steve youell does his Mongrel and Rotation passes in an invisible fashion. Bill Klush is said to have an extremely good pass, a claim supported by someone who saw him demonstrating it ( I didn’t say “saw him doing it”, because he didn’t see anything ). Richard Kaufman’s Half a Jiggle is facinating. Akira Fuji does excellent classic and cover passes as well. Ken Krenzel’s pass looks like trick photography in his VHS. Jim Swain in his L&L DVD too.

These are the living masters, don’t forget Vernon, Charlie Miller, Marlo, Gary Ouellet, Larry Jennings, Ross Bertram, Bruce Cervon and many others.

Invisible passes are there. Saying that the Pass cannot be invisible is simply ignoring the facts.

But hey, who am I to say all this? Let the vids do the talking. Hope this inspires you to perfect a move that is more than 100 years old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftnWaRB65FI

Cheers,

 

[Cliff|Bumgardner]

Regardless, the pass is still never going to be completely invisible. There will always be something to see in a pass. Akira Fuji has a hell of a pass, at the correct angle that it is always shot at.

I'm not saying that the pass cannot be performed well to the point that no one is going to catch the sleight. I am simply saying that the goal of a "invisible pass" is a pipe dream. A truly invisible pass would have to be one in which the cards never move... which defies even the very basic meaning of the word shift.


Hopefully my point is coming across.

 

[Medifro]

I'm not saying that the pass cannot be performed well to the point that no one is going to catch the sleight. I am simply saying that the goal of a "invisible pass" is a pipe dream.

Anyone can do it so "no one can catch it", but few can do it invisibly. I say this because I've seen videos of people doing it invisibly. Obviously it flashes from a certain angle, but at other angles, nothing is seen ( except the action of squaring the deck, or riffling, or what have you ). Part of doing the pass well is managing the move well. Doing the mechanic well is extremely important, but how and when its done ( regardless of them burning the deck or not ) is as important.

If you're calling a shift that can be done from all angles and nothing is seen except the hands touching the deck, then its not a pipe dream, its just "yet to be invented".

Doing the pass 120/minute ( 2 passes each second, different breaks) used to be a dream and thought that only Dr.Elliot is the only human who could do it. Ken Krenzel achieved it. ( doing alot of passes fast is not a measurement of skill by the way, but tells you that something thought to be impossible can be done )

Cheers,

 

[Shodan]

One of the most "burnable" (and easy) passes I've ever come across is Greg Wilson's "Backstage Pass" which he teaches either on Card Stunts or Pyrotechnic Pasteboards (full of other great material FYI). I use this pass a lot in performance and never once has anyone ever spotted the damn thing. Its probably the most stressless control to the top that I know of, and that includes the double undercut. Not only that but its very easy to justify the move itself with a simple patter line - I use "and you could have selected any of these cards" or words to that effect. I have used this pass with people watching from all angles and there's no suspicious movement at all - everything is logical and justified. So screw "yet to be invented", just thank Greg Wilson for extending a pre-existing idea (I'm pretty sure Dereck Dingle did the first work on this concept) into something remarkably practical.

A word of caution though. We all at some point are in danger of falling into the "if only I had THIS then I could do THAT" trap. For example "if only I had really fancy playing cards then I could finally do a decent fan/double lift/whatever". Or "If only I had the professional tennis racket my game would be so much better". In this case, "If only I had a great pass I could do a great ambitious card routine". Let me tell you, the pass is not necessary to a great ACR (I've posted extensively on this topic before as Medifro and others will remember!). There are many examples out there of killer ACR routines that don't go near a pass! What I'm trying to articulate here is: don't set roadblocks for yourself. Design a great ACR that uses your current toolbox, perform it, polish it and while you're at it, work on your passes. if you decide at the end of the day that it will be an asset tot he routine, great. If not then you haven't wasted all this time waiting for your pass to be up to scratch before you solve your ACR difficulties.

Cheers,
David.

 

[dan@danwragg.co.uk]

Hey Guys,

My names Daniel Wragg and im 16 from the UK, I have been doing the classic pass for 2 few months now and im pretty pleased with it as i havent been caught yet. I also do the dribbles pass and the spread pass all can be seen on my youtube video, i prefer the classic as its simple and i use it in my ambitious to do it face up. I have my own pass(sort of a cut as well) which looks like you are just splitting the deck and revolving both packets around at the same time, it looks flourishy and spectators think you are just turning your deck face up or down but you have controlled the card to the top or bottom.
I will have a video up soon which i will post here for you guys to see and you can let me know what you think of it.

Would anyone also mind viewing my youtube video below and leaving either a comment on here or on youtube on what you think of it and any improvements (besides the camera).

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oMQDvjo8TMw

Thanks a lot,

Dan

 

[Tenchu]

Hell yeah you need a better camera, but I see you got the technique, so it's all good. Looks very very nice if you spent only 2 months on the pass. Keep up the good work.

 

[dan@danwragg.co.uk]

Thanks

Thanks that means alot mate

Dan

 

[Medifro]

So screw "yet to be invented", just thank Greg Wilson for extending a pre-existing idea (I'm pretty sure Dereck Dingle did the first work on this concept) into something remarkably practical.

Erdnase's said that about passes that are consistent with actions in a card game. In magic, he mentioned that its covered with movements, refer to Erdnase's text.

Very well written Shodan.

@dan@danwragg.co.uk, it would be much better if you do the film with a better camera. Anyways, your fingers seem to get the classic pass action itself, but not the speed or the cover needed. Although the up-down method might fly as a magical gesture ( instead of waving your hand, you seem to move the deck up and down, this is what the spectator sees ), to make it fly while the deck face down, there are much better covers. If you still want to use this cover, do it slower with some patter lines to justify the move and make it look casual.

Good luck with it

Cheers,