Tons of performing, Michael Trautman, and a punk magician.

[Jacob L]

So maybe that last part of the title is a bit harsh, we will get to that and you all can determine if its accurate.
*Disclaimer* This is very long, if you don't like essays, then don't read. For those of you who take the time to read and respond to this, thanks in advance for your time, I really appreciate it.

Anywhoo... I was in Memphis this weekend for a Thespian Conference (no, not lesbian- thespian ) it's basically a mass gathering of theatre kids.
It was such a great time, but I just stick with the magic stuff.

My friends had a camera and went around doing random interviews to kids, then I asked if I could do magic and they totally agreed. I got a ton of performances in, some on camera some off, and pretty much everyone of them went great. There were no nerves, no shaking, nothing, I had a lot of fun.
I only did primarily three tricks the entire time I was there (Friday afternoon and all day Saturday.) Which was a bit odd because I usually try to mix it up throughout different performances, but these tricks worked so well I just stuck with them.

I performed Carbon Paper (my new favorite trick), a sandwhich effect using the jokers, and the invisible deck. I also did two other tricks that I'll talk about in the breakdown.

So here's how each effect played out.

Carbon Paper: Like I said before, I LOVE this effect. I performed it at least 10 times, probably way more, I really wasn't keeping count. This trick got me the best reactions, not just from the person holding the card, but the whole crowd around me as well. I tried different little presentation ideas each time to see what worked the best, and I found that having them imagine it gets colder, then have them imagine the burn mark slowly dissolve from the card got the best reactions for me. I say "Well it had to go somewhere right?" and by then they have an idea as to what is going to happen. I have them lift their top hand slowly (most were pretty reluctant to out of sheer disbelief that it was possible ) to confirm that their signiture is still on the card, then slowly turn it over. The rest is up to them, I've had screams, speechless-ness, even dropping the card and running away, even my film crew (not the best, but hey, we had fun), after seeing it all those times still was in awe by it. This is for sure my favorite effect, I can't see myself getting tired of it, its so much fun to perform and the reactions make it worth it.

Sandwhich Effect: I would go through the deck and say "now all the cards are different-oh wait, except for these, hold on to them for me." They pick a card, I lose it in the deck, then I do my favorite reveal. I swap the jokers from them for the deck and have them shuffle, then I have them hold the deck and riffle the front while I stab the jokers in and catch the card. I hold the sandwich there for a bit to let what just happened sink in, once people start reacting I ask what the card is, then turn it over. Again, the reactions for this were really solid, just the instant "bam! your cards right there" stuns them for a second, plus they got to hold the deck- I love involving the spectator in my effects. This was a good walk around effect for me, never failed.

Invisible Deck I only did the invisible deck about 3 times. The first performance I did it for just a solo person. He was really into shuffling the invisible cards and wasn't embarrassed, which is how most people feel. I revealed the card and had him take it out. Without a word he looks at his card, throws in on the ground, and walks away. It was great, he comes back freaking out and draws a crowd, so then Carbon Paper came in for someone else. Whoops, got off topic. So we do it for someone else and that went well, then for the third performanc...uh oh. The card selected was the three of hearts, and I revealed the three of spades, not really thinking. My friends were like "Jacob! come on man!" I had to think fast, "no no no, hold on a second. three right?" I wave my hand over the deck "At first it was one card, but now..." Three more cards are face down "take them out." They are all three's. That got a good reaction, but not as good as if the card had been right in the first place. I was proud of myself to recovering, but disappointed for messing up the first time (How do you screw up an invisible deck? come on now. )

Now I did two more tricks, just to add variety, Devestator and Card to Mouth. Guess how they went? Here we go.

Devestator: Now before I did a hard hitting effect like Devestator, I did some other quick stuff to some kids to show I was good, (building prestige I think its called. I believe crystal baller talked me about it, its from Strong Magic.) So I get into devestator and its all going well-and then the reveal. They count down 2 cards, and I have them reveal it. The card is correct, but I got NO reaction at all, nothing, nada. It was just "cool." I have no idea why it was like that, but my camera men afterwards said "Dude that was SICK! I have no idea how you do that." I was glad they liked it. I only did Devestator once because a table was hard to access and you really can't do it in the hands.

Card to Mouth: I have a group of kids around me and my friend walks behind me and whispers "Do the mouth one." Alright, thats a good one, let's do it. She says stop, I show the card, she pushes it in, I shuffle, I turn over the top card-its not there. I give it a second, then motion upwards. Everyone looks up and..."wait what? I missed that, do it again." Great...nothing again. I guess they were distracted and didnt fully pay attention. Well then, here comes Carbon Paper .

Alright, now the first part is done-on to Michael Trautman. For those of you who do not know, Trautman is a physical comedian, telling stories through his body and actions. He did some ping-pong ball magic, like having them vanish and come back, popping out of his mouth at the most random times, and just making everyone laugh. I got called up onstage with him to hit the balls back to him to catch in his mouth after he spit them out at me. If you want to know the details of my time on stage, you can PM me, I don't want to make this longer than it has to be . Overall, Mr. Trautman was a fantastic performer and I got to talk with him afterwards and he's a really cool guy. If you get the chance to see him, do it. Or book him for something, you will not be disappointed.

Now the final piece-the punk magician. Another kid was holding cards so I asked him if he does magic (they were the really crappy plastic cards-but since when do the cards tell the skill of the magician?) He's like "yeah I do!" "Alright, can you show me something?" So we sit down and use the folders we got as a makeshift table. He proceeds to show me This-n-That with Jack, King, and Ace. Now his patter, althought a bit choppy, was obviously thought out and rehearsed. His sleights-far from it. You could easily see everything, and his doubles, not the best. Nonetheless, I still said "good job" when the hidden card, the ace, was revealed. I'm not gonna say he sucked and kill his confidence, I thought he was just a beginner. He then does the trick where you end up with a packet of about 6 cards and slaps them to leave one and it's their card. (Iron fist I think? Not sure.) Again, he spoke pretty well, but he sleights were terrible, he didnt even do the one thats ment to be used and it was blantantly obvious. He didnt slap the cards either, he had me hold the packet, close my eyes, think of my card, turn the packet over, and open my eyes. "Cool...?" I really didn't know how to react, but again I'm not gonna say he sucks. I asked him how long he's been doing magic- he says for two years. I've been doing magic for 2 years, and he's at the stage I was when I first started. I offer to show him something, so I do my joker sandwich effect. After the reveal he's like "cool, but I know how you did that." Ummm...so do I? I did the effect. Now I could've ripped him and said all his effects sucked and he's terrible and everything, but that would get me no where. So I just said "ok, nice to meet you." And walked away. His hypothesis on how it was done was incorrect anyway. It was just aggrivating how I'm responding to his tricks and being nice, but he only focuses on the method of mine. Oh well, some people are just like that. I really doubt he's been doing it for two years because he can barely riffle shuffle.
This was in no way to slam him, I'm just stating what the experience was, even my friends said he was really boring, so it wasn't just me.

Whew, that was long. If you got this far, give yourself a cookie, you deserve it.
Thanks for reading, and any response is welcome on anything I talked about here.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[scarecrow1]

Alright, you promised it...where is my cookie!

In all seriousness though, sound like you had a great time. Too bad about the not-so-good reactions though. Hand to mouth is a killer, too bad it didn't work. Surprises me that they didn't react, it's such a simple easy-to-follow effect.

Anyway, yea, that would be kinda annoying. It always bugs me when these guys can't do anything (and if they do, it's not good) and they criticize other people. I met some kids once who were trying to go for the "cool street magician look" dressed all in black wearing fedoras (which are cool hats, but it was why they were wearing them), the funny part (and this was at a magic convention and I was there all day) was that the entire time, I never once saw them do any magic. They just flourished the whole time (and they weren't half bad). It bugs me when these kids try to fit in with the "cool" magicians, and flourish (because that's sort of the "in" thing) and are actually good at flourishing, but then give advice and criticize people's performances at magic.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm a huge believer in individualism. Not to bash flourishing, it's just people who do it to fit in.

Anyway, great job on that! Sound like you got lot's of experience and had fun.

 

[Jacob L]

Alright, you promised it...where is my cookie!

In all seriousness though, sound like you had a great time. Too bad about the not-so-good reactions though. Hand to mouth is a killer, too bad it didn't work. Surprises me that they didn't react, it's such a simple easy-to-follow effect.

Anyway, yea, that would be kinda annoying. It always bugs me when these guys can't do anything (and if they do, it's not good) and they criticize other people. I met some kids once who were trying to go for the "cool street magician look" dressed all in black wearing fedoras (which are cool hats, but it was why they were wearing them), the funny part (and this was at a magic convention and I was there all day) was that the entire time, I never once saw them do any magic. They just flourished the whole time (and they weren't half bad). It bugs me when these kids try to fit in with the "cool" magicians, and flourish (because that's sort of the "in" thing) and are actually good at flourishing, but then give advice and criticize people's performances at magic.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm a huge believer in individualism. Not to bash flourishing, it's just people who do it to fit in.

Anyway, great job on that! Sound like you got lot's of experience and had fun.

Hey, I said give YOURSELF a cookie, nothing about me getting you one .
Yeah I was just as surprised that it didnt work.

Haha, belive it or not, this kid was wearing a fadora, a button down, and a little street vest to go over it. He then did a "follow your card" effect with two cards and I got mine 13 out of 15 times, (this was after I did my effect, so I was kinda tired of him). He did say I was really good, and when he found out I've been doing it for the same amount of time he has been doing it, the look on his face was priceless. I wasn't trying to show him up or anything, but I dont wanna boos an ego, so I had to put him in his place a bit.

It was THE time of my life, I had a blast and I know that I can perform now, it was such a confidence booster.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[Nino]

Okay let me find a cookie.

Kind of dissapointing the Card to Mouth didn't work. I always get killer reactions. Sounds like you had a very good time.

 

[Jacob L]

Okay let me find a cookie.

Kind of dissapointing the Card to Mouth didn't work. I always get killer reactions. Sounds like you had a very good time.

Yeah but that could've just been because there were a lot of distractions around, oh well, win some lose some. Oh yeah I had an awesome time, it was great.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[Morgan B]

Well, you sucked me in kid...I must say, most of what you wrote is a common experience. I would like to address what you said, but only if you promise to read it...promise dammit!

Okay then:

First, you stated what your favourite trick is, Carbon Paper, and it is no wonder people loved it, you loved it. I know you may not realize it, but when you really enjoy sharing something, people will enjoy watching it. Enthusiasm is contagious. Also, the effect is one of those “different” pick a cards, that has a ashes to palm flavour. Because of this, and the lack of sleights involved, it is very strong. The first thing that could have gone wrong and why some effects go no reaction is how you structured your “impromptu” sets. If you did a sandwich effect after that, no wonder it got no reaction. It is like following a pellet gun after a bazooka! One is slightly more impressive, than the other. Obviously the pellet gun!?

Side note: Many people screw up the Invisible deck, usually because of a mistake in simple math and not pairing the suits wrong, but your recovery was fast thinking. Good to share, it happens to all of us. The performance part sounded like a learning experience for you, I hope you start to ask yourself more (especially when you can see on tape) why certain thing didn’t work, and others did.

Anyhow, I want to address the way you reacted to the young man that knew “a few tricks”. First, you invited him to show something, he didn’t ask. Your reaction shows a bit of an ego or chip on your shoulder. I think you expected too much out of him. How we quickly forget where we started in magic. How we thought. How we were fooled. This young man you met has the same attitude most have. His feedback on your sandwich effect was most likely accurate, but communicated poorly.

Let me translate for him - If I can see something, I know something was done, I know WHAT was done, even if I can’t replicate it or say what you did. What he was probably saying in somewhat lay audience terms is: I can tell something is happening there, and that doesn’t look like magic...as magic looks like Carbon Copy or Invisible Deck – it should look moveless. I am certain if you do the sandwich effect like 90% of those out there, it looks like moves. It looks like a puzzle, so how can you expect people to not think about method. It may be the reason you got such poor reactions with it. It has no reason, no plot – the effect is one selected card ends up between two...the end. So, what do the two cards have to do with anything? So the obvious question is “how did the card get there...and the answer is “you put it there” – not as magical as transposing soot or having a thought of card pre-reversed in a pack...moveless!

Anyhow, time has nothing to do with ability – you said 2 years – well, I know guys that have been doing it for 10 and can’t do an Elmsley...but I know kids in it for 1 year and can do one handed shuffles and all the hard sleights. It isn’t about skill...it is about exposure to knowledge and the passion to learn. He has the passion to learn, I bet 100 bucks he doesn’t have exposure to knowledge...at least not the right kind. It sounds like he got his magic from book stores and Youtube. The patter was stolen, the tricks were unrehearsed. It would have been a better experience for both of you if you were honest with him, and you accepted his honesty as an opportunity for someone to actually tell you were your weaknesses in magic exist in your tricks – as if we can’t trust our own magic brethren for honest opinions on effects, who can we trust?

I think you are young, and learning still, but you need to remember to be more humble...wasn't that what you liked about the pro you promoted? How was your experience different with this guy, then with the young guy...but YOU being in the position of experience? Sounds to me like you missed a chance to educate someone that was lost in magic...pity really....hey, but at least everyone loved when you did Carbon Paper. (strokes ego)

I know that sounded harsh, and it isn't meant to be - I understand those feelings, but perhaps next time you will remember that what people do isn't always to be rude, but a lack of knowing what isn't rude.

 

[Jacob L]

Well, you sucked me in kid...I must say, most of what you wrote is a common experience. I would like to address what you said, but only if you promise to read it...promise dammit!

Okay then:

First, you stated what your favourite trick is, Carbon Paper, and it is no wonder people loved it, you loved it. I know you may not realize it, but when you really enjoy sharing something, people will enjoy watching it. Enthusiasm is contagious. Also, the effect is one of those “different” pick a cards, that has a ashes to palm flavour. Because of this, and the lack of sleights involved, it is very strong. The first thing that could have gone wrong and why some effects go no reaction is how you structured your “impromptu” sets. If you did a sandwich effect after that, no wonder it got no reaction. It is like following a pellet gun after a bazooka! One is slightly more impressive, than the other. Obviously the pellet gun!?

Side note: Many people screw up the Invisible deck, usually because of a mistake in simple math and not pairing the suits wrong, but your recovery was fast thinking. Good to share, it happens to all of us. The performance part sounded like a learning experience for you, I hope you start to ask yourself more (especially when you can see on tape) why certain thing didn’t work, and others did.

Anyhow, I want to address the way you reacted to the young man that knew “a few tricks”. First, you invited him to show something, he didn’t ask. Your reaction shows a bit of an ego or chip on your shoulder. I think you expected too much out of him. How we quickly forget where we started in magic. How we thought. How we were fooled. This young man you met has the same attitude most have. His feedback on your sandwich effect was most likely accurate, but communicated poorly.

Let me translate for him - If I can see something, I know something was done, I know WHAT was done, even if I can’t replicate it or say what you did. What he was probably saying in somewhat lay audience terms is: I can tell something is happening there, and that doesn’t look like magic...as magic looks like Carbon Copy or Invisible Deck – it should look moveless. I am certain if you do the sandwich effect like 90% of those out there, it looks like moves. It looks like a puzzle, so how can you expect people to not think about method. It may be the reason you got such poor reactions with it. It has no reason, no plot – the effect is one selected card ends up between two...the end. So, what do the two cards have to do with anything? So the obvious question is “how did the card get there...and the answer is “you put it there” – not as magical as transposing soot or having a thought of card pre-reversed in a pack...moveless!

Anyhow, time has nothing to do with ability – you said 2 years – well, I know guys that have been doing it for 10 and can’t do an Elmsley...but I know kids in it for 1 year and can do one handed shuffles and all the hard sleights. It isn’t about skill...it is about exposure to knowledge and the passion to learn. He has the passion to learn, I bet 100 bucks he doesn’t have exposure to knowledge...at least not the right kind. It sounds like he got his magic from book stores and Youtube. The patter was stolen, the tricks were unrehearsed. It would have been a better experience for both of you if you were honest with him, and you accepted his honesty as an opportunity for someone to actually tell you were your weaknesses in magic exist in your tricks – as if we can’t trust our own magic brethren for honest opinions on effects, who can we trust?

I think you are young, and learning still, but you need to remember to be more humble...wasn't that what you liked about the pro you promoted? How was your experience different with this guy, then with the young guy...but YOU being in the position of experience? Sounds to me like you missed a chance to educate someone that was lost in magic...pity really....hey, but at least everyone loved when you did Carbon Paper. (strokes ego)

I know that sounded harsh, and it isn't meant to be - I understand those feelings, but perhaps next time you will remember that what people do isn't always to be rude, but a lack of knowing what isn't rude.

I promise to read, and I did.
I'm just a tad confused on your opening paragraph, I do realize that when you love something, people notice. I love performing, being onstage, doing magic, anything to portray my feelings to the audience and getting them involved. That's why I did those effects, because I enjoy doing them and are confident in them and I could portray that to my audience through my body language and personality. If I was doing one trick then moving on to a different group, I would do Carbon Paper because it hits hard and they get to keep the piece of magic with them afterwards. It typically went sandwhich effect then carbon paper/invisible deck because the latter hit harder than the former.

Thats exactly what happend on the invisible deck, I wasn't thinking and paired the suits wrong.

For devestator, I did simpler tricks before because that's usually my "bazooka," but it seemed to play the pellet gun role in that situation. For Card to Mouth, I followed the sandwhich with that, I'm not sure what effects plays what role in that situation.

I didn't take any of that has harsh, I fully understand what your saying. To be honest, I did feel a bit cocky as the kid showed me stuff, which isn't really the way to behave. His enthusiasm definatly was there, I could tell he enjoyed performing, I saw him later in the same spot doing the same tricks for other kids and they liked them, so I could be a bit wrong about him.

I did my sandwhich effect the same I did it for everyone else, I didn't alter it for him, so I don't see how there's a flaw. I can spot my friend doing a sleight, but if it flies past audiences for 5 performances in a row, why tell him its obvious? I think the kids "magicians eyes" came in and he just saw a simple sleight and stated it. It just seemed rude to point it out because I didn't say anything about me spotting his effects.

As you said, I am still learning, I agree with that, and I learned a ton there, and just now as well. I think a more "Hey man, I think I can help you out." Attitude would've been more suitable. He probably did have wrong exposure, because everything was off Youtube. I guess I just felt a bit uncomfortable being called out on something I know I'm good at and left.

(strokes ego)

haha really? come on now.

that what people do isn't always to be rude, but a lack of knowing what isn't rude

Mental lock on that.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[Jacob L]

Hey guys, just got one of the videos from my friend for critique/enjoyment.

I do all three effects-sandwich, invisible, and carbon paper.

Welcome to Thespian Conference hope you enjoy your stay

Your boy,
Fez

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Hey man, sounds like you had a great time. By the way you owe me a cookie.. (everyone else said it so I'll add it on... like a running gag... but not...) haha.

Anyway, I live close to you! I recently went up to the Opry Mills Mall, and usually go to the galleria.

But yeah, Cabon paper is a killer effect.

 

[Jacob L]

For the cookie, I say get yourself one, I never say I'll give you one.

Really? thats awesome, we should meet up sometime.

Favortie effect hands down.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[jok3r]

Hey man, sounds like you had a great time. By the way you owe me a cookie.. (everyone else said it so I'll add it on... like a running gag... but not...) haha.

Anyway, I live close to you! I recently went up to the Opry Mills Mall, and usually go to the galleria.

But yeah, Cabon paper is a killer effect.

I was at Opry Mills mall yesterday!

 

[canadamagic]

I have had this happen a lot, though in a way not successfully, I shall explain. I perform for some people and they claim to "know how it is done," I find the best way to handle this is to ask them how. They usualy trip over themselves explaining some ridiculous thing that is compleatly irrelavent to the effect, which at that point I confirm that they have no idea how. I find that a lot of spectators claim that they know how an effect is done to "look good" in front of other spectators or just for themselves.

There is nothing wrong with constructive critasism. If I encounter another less seasoned magician and they perform for me I have no problem telling them what they did wrong. Needless to say not blatenly and in a rude manner, but to suggest improvemnet. Sounds like you had a great time.

 

[Morgan B]

I am going to reply to this before I watch your performance, as it may taint or skew my words. You never know with magicians.

Anyhow - my first paragraph - let me reword - that effect you mentioned was a killer...it is obvious you are confident and excited about that one, moreso than the others. Now, I actually don't know the effect "Devestator" but if you could explain it, or share the effect (not the method) a link where I can see a demo, I perhaps can shed some light on why it bombed. HOWEVER, quiet doesn't mean bad, as it could be internalizing, and some people act that way during astonishment. I had a lady that watched a set, she was SO quiet...I thought I bombed, she came back next week with 3 friends bragging about how much she loved it. I could have never have told from her body language at the time. Lesson learnt - don't read body language, as it doesn't always tell us all - even in group settings.

I can spot my friend doing a sleight, but if it flies past audiences for 5 performances in a row, why tell him its obvious?

Well, if it because you are a magician, then no...but this young man seemed more like a lay audience with a bit of knowledge. As for your above statement, if you see it because it looks like a move, then he needs to know it looks like a move. It isn't about those 5 performances, it is about the 5 after that...then 5 after that. How is he to progress? Understand his effect? Keep thinking about his magic? If it isn't for honest feedback, from someone that sees past the BS? Just because it flys past 5 audiences, doesn't mean it is good...it just means it works. I can put tape on a flat tire and it will work, but it doesn't make the problem go away. I would rather get a new tire right? Well, help him build a new tire by questioning...not always, but if you see room for improvement. This comes with time and experience, moreso. However, it is the answer to your question.

I can understand feeling challenged by a lesser skilled magician can be frustrating...welcome to many of the experienced magicians on this forum main pet peeve, haha. I think you have a good grasp on it, and picked up on that last sentence.

Fez - went to watch the vid and I can't - privacy setting dude. Thanks though.

 

[Morgan B]

I have had this happen a lot, though in a way not successfully, I shall explain. I perform for some people and they claim to "know how it is done," I find the best way to handle this is to ask them how. They usualy trip over themselves explaining some ridiculous thing that is compleatly irrelavent to the effect, which at that point I confirm that they have no idea how. I find that a lot of spectators claim that they know how an effect is done to "look good" in front of other spectators or just for themselves.

There is nothing wrong with constructive critasism. If I encounter another less seasoned magician and they perform for me I have no problem telling them what they did wrong.

Please don't take this personally - as it is NOT a personal attack - but am about to use you as an example - and I apolagize now for it. BUT - I do this because THIS IS A COMMON BELIEF ON HOW TO MANAGE YOUR AUDIENCE AND IT IS WRONG! NOW LET ME EXPLAIN WHY:

Ever have an audience member say - HOW DID YOU DO THAT? Do you think they want you to actually tell them. It is an expression of emotion and the impact of the effect. It is rhetorical a large percentage of the time.

Now, when someone says - I KNOW HOW YOU DID THAT - just like "how did you do that" they don't often mean what is being said. What they mean is: I SAW SOMETHING FISHY, AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID, BUT YOU DID SOMETHING THAT ACCOMPLISHED WHATEVER THE HELL YOU JUST SHOWED ME. Now, asking them to explain the method of something that it took a book/video or person teaching you is really the ridiculous part. You see, they are actually helping you...they are basically saying, HEY BUDDY, YOU FLASHED - because magic is supposed to look like MAGIC, NOT a series of moves. If they saw something that made them call it out, it is YOUR FAULT, not theres. SO, how do you reward them for the same open and honest feedback that you would give a "lesser magician" - you chatize them and make them look foolish by asking them to expain it to you. Of course they will stumble...they don't know the terminology for shuffling most times, and you want them to explain what technique you used to accomplish your feat?

Vernon said this: IF they know SOMETHING has happened, it is as bad as knowing EXACTLY what happened. NOW, please read this again.

Realize that if you handled it in a more mature and less defensive way, it would show true professionalism. "At what point did you see someting? Did you really see something, or are you grasping at straws? As I love feedback to help me fool my next audience even more, and since you are offering it so kindly - at what moment did you see something"

They will either say, "nah man, I was just playing...I have NO idea how you did that"...then you can joke it off, as they have an out with your kind and direct approach.

OR

They will say - when you took the card back, I saw "and they will describe it the best of their ability" - say "thank you" I hope I get to show it to you again with your suggestions.

What more can you ask for than feedback from our audiences - but we are so fooled by our OWN methods that we think nobody can figure us out.

Sorry, but the above statement is magic malpractice - and I STRONGLY recommend you never use this approach again, as it only abuses people that are brave enough to tell you that your magic is not as hard hitting as you like to think it is. I know it stings, but man up and realize that it isn't the audience being jerks...if someone catches something...learn from it, grow - nobody fools them all - not even the big "names" in magic.

I hope what I said was enough to make you change your mind...and all those that follow this abusive reaction to what they consider to be a heckler.

 

[canadamagic]

Please don't take this personally - as it is NOT a personal attack - but am about to use you as an exampl - and I apolagize now for it. BUT - I do this because THIS IS A COMMON BELIEF ON HOW TO MANAGE YOUR AUDIENCE AND IT IS WRONG! NOW LET ME EXPLAIN WHY:

Ever have an audience member say - HOW DID YOU DO THAT? Do you think they want you to actually tell them. It is an expression of emotion and the impact of the effect. It is rhetorical a large percentage of the time.

Now, when someone says - I KNOW HOW YOU DID THAT - just like "how did you do that" they don't often mean what is being said. What they mean is: I SAW SOMETHING FISHY, AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID, BUT YOU DID SOMETHING THAT ACCOMPLISHED WHATEVER THE HELL YOU JUST SHOWED ME. Now, asking them to explain the method of something that it took a book/video or person teaching you is really the ridiculous part. You see, they are actually helping you...they are basically saying, HEY BUDDY, YOU FLASHED - because magic is supposed to look like MAGIC, NOT a series of moves. If they saw something that made them call it out, it is YOUR FAULT, not theres. SO, how do you reward them for the same open and honest feedback that you would give a "lesser magician" - you chatize them and make them look foolish by asking them to expain it to you. Of course they will stumble...they don't know the terminology for shuffling most times, and you want them to explain what technique you used to accomplish your feat?

Vernon said this: IF they know SOMETHING has happened, it is as bad as knowing EXACTLY what happened. NOW, please read this again.

Realize that if you handled it in a more mature and less defensive way, it would show true professionalism. "At what point did you see someting? Did you really see something, or are you grasping at straws? As I love feedback to help me fool my next audience even more, and since you are offering it so kindly - at what moment did you see something"

They will either say, "nah man, I was just playing...I have NO idea how you did that"...then you can joke it off, as they have an out with your kind and direct approach.

OR

They will say - when you took the card back, I saw "and they will describe it the best of their ability" - say "thank you" I hope I get to show it to you again with your suggestions.

What more can you ask for than feedback from our audiences - but we are so fooled by our OWN methods that we think nobody can figure us out.

Sorry, but the above statement is magic malpractice - and I STRONGLY recommend you never use this approach again, as it only abuses people that are brave enough to tell you that your magic is not as hard hitting as you like to think it is. I know it stings, but man up and realize that it isn't the audience being jerks...if someone catches something...learn from it, grow - nobody fools them all - not even the big "names" in magic.

I hope what I said was enough to make you change your mind...and all those that follow this abusive reaction to what they consider to be a heckler.

I agree with this, I probably should have thought of this. I don't take an aggresive standpoint with spectators if they do figure out a performance of mine. I use it as constructive critasism. Thanks for posting this, looks like I gotta sharpen my tools.

 

[Morgan B]

Glad you feel this way - and like I said - you are not the only one to take this path, as it may be instinctual, as a defense mechanism. We often look to others to find fault, as few will look at themselves to see fault first. However, more often than not, this is a great opportunity for you - hope that you can "sharpen your tools" and it allows you to cut deeper with your magic. However, I doubt that all the others will read this, or change this habit as easily. Kudos to you for being big enough to remove your ego to grow. Believe me, I have been in your shoes too - you will grow because of this choice.

 

[Jacob L]

I pretty much love everything you say, if it's ment to be harsh or not, I know that you are only trying to help peole grow,and thats how I plan to take this all in.

I am going to reply to this before I watch your performance, as it may taint or skew my words. You never know with magicians.

Anyhow - my first paragraph - let me reword - that effect you mentioned was a killer...it is obvious you are confident and excited about that one, moreso than the others. Now, I actually don't know the effect "Devestator" but if you could explain it, or share the effect (not the method) a link where I can see a demo, I perhaps can shed some light on why it bombed. HOWEVER, quiet doesn't mean bad, as it could be internalizing, and some people act that way during astonishment. I had a lady that watched a set, she was SO quiet...I thought I bombed, she came back next week with 3 friends bragging about how much she loved it. I could have never have told from her body language at the time. Lesson learnt - don't read body language, as it doesn't always tell us all - even in group settings.

I can spot my friend doing a sleight, but if it flies past audiences for 5 performances in a row, why tell him its obvious?

Well, if it because you are a magician, then no...but this young man seemed more like a lay audience with a bit of knowledge. As for your above statement, if you see it because it looks like a move, then he needs to know it looks like a move. It isn't about those 5 performances, it is about the 5 after that...then 5 after that. How is he to progress? Understand his effect? Keep thinking about his magic? If it isn't for honest feedback, from someone that sees past the BS? Just because it flys past 5 audiences, doesn't mean it is good...it just means it works. I can put tape on a flat tire and it will work, but it doesn't make the problem go away. I would rather get a new tire right? Well, help him build a new tire by questioning...not always, but if you see room for improvement. This comes with time and experience, moreso. However, it is the answer to your question.

I can understand feeling challenged by a lesser skilled magician can be frustrating...welcome to many of the experienced magicians on this forum main pet peeve, haha. I think you have a good grasp on it, and picked up on that last sentence.

Fez - went to watch the vid and I can't - privacy setting dude. Thanks though.

For the first part about Devestator, I'll shoot you a PM.
For the reaction part: Ok, I see what your saying, and I have had people not react very visually before, but they seemed to be taking it in, like you said earlier, because that is how they react. For this certain group of people, it didnt seem like that type of internal reaction. But hey, we are all different, and react in different ways. I do know it went well though because my film guys, who also didnt have such a verbal reaction as they usually do, told me that the effect was awesome and they loved it. So I believe your analysis could be correct in this situation.
For the sleight part: I think I might have worded my question wrong, but you also make valid points I would like to build upon.
First, rewording-I know the clipshift and how its done, pretty much every layman does not. If I know my friend is doing the clipshift simply based off the motion of the sleight, but I see no flash, am I still in the right to tell him to work on it? That was the main thing I was trying to get at. Now if I do see a flash, of course I'll tell him I saw something, but it will be after the audience has left. And I feel that I am allowed to tell him and correct him because we are friends and comfortable with each other enough to take criticism from each other. In this case, I had a stranger critique me acting like he knew more than me and was allowed to. (I'm not sure allowed is the correct word in this situation, but I can't think of a different one.)

Now the points you made: For the mall adventure we had (you can check my vimeo page if you have not yet seen it.) We did correct eachother and tell each other what we saw and how we thought the other one did. So we do give each other feedback because we both want the other and ourselves to improve. By being able to spot grammar mistakes in sentences and be able to explain to someone else why it is a mistake, they not only are informed and become better at it, but you do as well because you are in the practice of utilizing what you know and applying it through an explaination. Same concept in this situation, I know what happened, and if I see a mistake or flash, I tell him, and we both grow from it.

Sorry about the video, its from my friends video camera and she probably put the privacy setting on there because she uploaded it. I'll try and get it fixed.

Ever have an audience member say - HOW DID YOU DO THAT? Do you think they want you to actually tell them. It is an expression of emotion and the impact of the effect. It is rhetorical a large percentage of the time.

I can relate, people have been "How do you do that? No wait, dont tell me!"
So I realize that most of the time it's not out of genuine curiosity, but simply an impulse reaction.

Now, when someone says - I KNOW HOW YOU DID THAT - just like "how did you do that" they don't often mean what is being said.

Now I did not really know this, thanks for shining some light on this.

What they mean is: I SAW SOMETHING FISHY, AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID, BUT YOU DID SOMETHING THAT ACCOMPLISHED WHATEVER THE HELL YOU JUST SHOWED ME. Now, asking them to explain the method of something that it took a book/video or person teaching you is really the ridiculous part. You see, they are actually helping you...they are basically saying, HEY BUDDY, YOU FLASHED - because magic is supposed to look like MAGIC, NOT a series of moves. If they saw something that made them call it out, it is YOUR FAULT, not theres. SO, how do you reward them for the same open and honest feedback that you would give a "lesser magician" - you chatize them and make them look foolish by asking them to expain it to you. Of course they will stumble...they don't know the terminology for shuffling most times, and you want them to explain what technique you used to accomplish your feat?

Vernon said this: IF they know SOMETHING has happened, it is as bad as knowing EXACTLY what happened. NOW, please read this again.

Realize that if you handled it in a more mature and less defensive way, it would show true professionalism. "At what point did you see someting? Did you really see something, or are you grasping at straws? As I love feedback to help me fool my next audience even more, and since you are offering it so kindly - at what moment did you see something"

They will either say, "nah man, I was just playing...I have NO idea how you did that"...then you can joke it off, as they have an out with your kind and direct approach.

OR

They will say - when you took the card back, I saw "and they will describe it the best of their ability" - say "thank you" I hope I get to show it to you again with your suggestions.

What more can you ask for than feedback from our audiences - but we are so fooled by our OWN methods that we think nobody can figure us out.

Sorry, but the above statement is magic malpractice - and I STRONGLY recommend you never use this approach again, as it only abuses people that are brave enough to tell you that your magic is not as hard hitting as you like to think it is. I know it stings, but man up and realize that it isn't the audience being jerks...if someone catches something...learn from it, grow - nobody fools them all - not even the big "names" in magic.

I hope what I said was enough to make you change your mind...and all those that follow this abusive reaction to what they consider to be a heckler.

Ok, so you're saying instead of making them feel embarrassed and flustured for calling you out, ask them where they saw the flash? What if you're in a group setting, you don't want everyone else who was fooled to have an idea on the method do you? Do you pull him aside later and ask for the feedback, or how exactly do you go about doing that?
For me and the kid, it was one on one, so giving/recieving feedback would have been pretty apporpriate. But again, I guess I handled it a bit immaturely by walking off instead of manning up and taking the blow to get me better.

I think we got a good discussion here, can't wait to hear what you have to say.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[Morgan B]

For the sleight part - if you know how clipshift is done, and can tell it is being done by movement...hmm, this is a hard one, because I would ask - is the movement natural enough to fool - or is the movement enough to forecast the moment. I hate clipshift, it is like the ego change...it only fools straight on, or in the case of clipshift, on your right and head on...it flashes and looks movey even when done well. SUCH an inefficient sleight. I digress:

I had a stranger critique me acting like he knew more than me and was allowed to.

Is their opinion less valid, just because they aren't educated on the art? Whom do you seek to please? Audiences, not magicians - so why would you value the magicians opinion more than a less educated person on the art...that perhaps sees it with virgin eyes...not tainted by knowledge?

As for talking to a person that calls you out - I would take the guy aside after I was done, or if he persisted say - I would love to talk about it after I show a couple more, your feedback is appreciated. Fry him, he may forget your flash - and if he doesn't - take the gift of the feedback and thank him.

 

[Jacob L]

For the sleight part - if you know how clipshift is done, and can tell it is being done by movement...hmm, this is a hard one, because I would ask - is the movement natural enough to fool - or is the movement enough to forecast the moment. I hate clipshift, it is like the ego change...it only fools straight on, or in the case of clipshift, on your right and head on...it flashes and looks movey even when done well. SUCH an inefficient sleight. I digress:

I had a stranger critique me acting like he knew more than me and was allowed to.

Is their opinion less valid, just because they aren't educated on the art? Whom do you seek to please? Audiences, not magicians - so why would you value the magicians opinion more than a less educated person on the art...that perhaps sees it with virgin eyes...not tainted by knowledge?

As for talking to a person that calls you out - I would take the guy aside after I was done, or if he persisted say - I would love to talk about it after I show a couple more, your feedback is appreciated. Fry him, he may forget your flash - and if he doesn't - take the gift of the feedback and thank him.

Ok, so let's not use the clipshift, maybe something more simple and natural, like a DL. A one handed break, with misdirection, goes unnoticeable to spectators, as well as the action of turning it over. Of course I know what's being done because I've seen it enough and do it as well. Now there are exceptions and loopholes to this I-know-what-sleight-is-being-done-but-its-not-noticable philosophy, so its gonna end up at a stand still because each slieght is different in angles and exectution.

So if one is not very educated, it brings a new perspective to the table that one who has knowledge on the subject may have overlooked. I see that.

Your boy,
Fez

 

[Sir FansAlot]

Ok, so let's not use the clipshift, maybe something more simple and natural, like a DL. A one handed break, with misdirection, goes unnoticeable to spectators, as well as the action of turning it over. Of course I know what's being done because I've seen it enough and do it as well. Now there are exceptions and loopholes to this I-know-what-sleight-is-being-done-but-its-not-noticable philosophy, so its gonna end up at a stand still because each slieght is different in angles and exectution.

So if one is not very educated, it brings a new perspective to the table that one who has knowledge on the subject may have overlooked. I see that.

Your boy,
Fez

Yo Fez,

I always try to look at every magic trick from a spectator-point-of-view. I try to be open-minded and forget everything I know each time I see a new effect.

Hope that helps.

Just to add, I liked that "mirage" effect you have posted on youtube. Old stuff with a creative handling is always good for magic.