The Weekly Debate : #2

[Dylan P.]

First off let us congradulate the first ever GREAT DEBATER OF THE WEEK. Visualartist.

He brought many great thoughts into the thread and challenged some ideas. I feel that he did the best job debating with the community. Good job.
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Well, as we all know the majority of the people that frequent these forums are kids. I thought this was quite an interesting question that was proposed to me by one of our own Theory11 forum members via PM. These kids will go around here and sometimes they have something to contribute but sometimes they will slip up and write random posts. So here is out question:

"DO YOU THINK THAT THE MAJORITY OF MEMBERS ON THESE FORUMS BEING KIDS IS A GOOD OR BAD THING?" (Question submitted by Zeedub81)
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THIS WEEKS GREAT DEBATER: (Randomwrath)
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Remember if you have an idea for a topic, please send youridea to me through a PM

Dylan P.

 

[Flyspazz]

1st. Congrats to Visualartist for being the Master Debater.
Sorry I couldnt help it P.

I think its a good thing. When I was young I was doing things that were shall we say not so good. There are so many good lessons and traits in magic that can be learned. Not to mention some of the things they can do at their ages are really amazing.

Its up to the mods to clean up the spam and such.

 

[Mr.MadMan]

I agree that its good. I find much valuable info on these forums daily. Ive avoided buying bad products and met alot of creative people.
And its great to have a place to come where i can get info almost instantly, and solve problems faster than i would searching the net for hours and hours at a time.
(im 15, so im a kid )

Mikk

 

[jonraiker]

Dylan,

Unfortunately, I don't see how this "debate" is valuable to the progression of magic. It's solely forum-related, rather than a debate related to the art of magic itself.

That said, you're not really breaking any of the rules so I'll leave this open. I can see this leading to some arguments (as opposed to an intelligent discussion among members), so I'll be watching this one closely.

 

[JJM10]

I think it's a good thing that a younger audience is involved. I'm pretty young myself. They are the future of the art and they should be involved in as much as possible to learn from other magicans and do their magic the right way.

 

[Ben Long]

Yeah, I kind of agree with Jon.

Shouldn't we be discussing magic?

 

[Zeedub81]

Dylan,

Unfortunately, I don't see how this "debate" is valuable to the progression of magic. It's solely forum-related, rather than a debate related to the art of magic itself.

That said, you're not really breaking any of the rules so I'll leave this open. I can see this leading to some arguments (as opposed to an intelligent discussion among members), so I'll be watching this one closely.

Yes, I realize that, I wanted to ask it because I wondered what others think about it. But I think it does influence the art of magic in at least one way, because T11 is all about advancing magic and when it's full of kids I think that can influence the progression of magic. I just thought, would T11 still be same if it was a majority of adult members?
Sorry, I guess I should've never sent that pm.

 

[Lurker777]

I don't mind having some kids in here, but I do mind if there are posting mindless babble. It was this way on Penguinmagic, and that was the main reason why I left, that and the massive amounts of rather inappropiate spam. I'm a kid, just so you know, so don't take this the wrong way.

 

[4757joshua2]

Yes, I realize that, I wanted to ask it because I wondered what others think about it. But I think it does influence the art of magic in at least one way, because T11 is all about advancing magic and when it's full of kids I think that can influence the progression of magic. I just thought, would T11 still be same if it was a majority of adult members?
Sorry, I guess I should've never sent that pm.

No need to say sorry man, the fault for this thread falls squarely on Dylan's shoulders. He was the one who posted your question after all.

Once again, this is not worth debating in my eyes so no comment.

 

[jonraiker]

My comment on the subject -- I think it's a great thing. It shows how far magic has grown and progressed over the last few years. It's nice to see young guys taking magic so seriously.

Respect.

 

[Randomwrath]

I think having a mixture of ages is good. I am in no way trying to stereotype here but the kids (being younger and having less knowledge of what is and isn't possible) might come up with the most creative and unusual ideas. The adults, on the other hand, (and again, I am not trying to stereotype certain groups) may be more independent and research things better before posting them. Still, that may not be true, I don't know who is and isn't a kid on here.
I think it is important to have a reasonably large amount of kids, seeing as they are the ones that'll grow up into the profession of magic and therefore this is the best place to influence the future of the art one way or another, whereas having more kids in proportion to adults is good or not, I don't know.

 

[4757joshua2]

No need to say sorry man, the fault for this thread falls squarely on Dylan's shoulders. He was the one who posted your question after all.

Once again, this is not worth debating in my eyes so no comment.

Not worth debating, but I will comment: It all depends on the person. Most people under 13 suck, which sucks for the magic community, but some are really good! Age matters not to me, just how well you perform magic.

 

[Morgan B]

Actually, this may be a good time to address the fact that over 60% of the members ARE young, and many in this percentage are new to magic or lack experience/knowledge. This being said - I think it's great so many youth are involved in magic - as it has given back so much to me - however, I wish there were a way for OPINION and FACT to be separate, as some read this forums as advice - and at times it reads as the blind leading the blind.

If there were some way to distinguish those that are experienced, or give valuable advice - it would be nice.

It reminds me of a time I posted a question about the pro's and con's of watch steals - a bunch of guys posted their opinions - at least 15 to 20 people posted their impressions of doing watch steals - HOWEVER, it was never stated as an opinion - it was stated as fact or firsthand experience.

When asked how many ACTUALLY performed a watch steal? TWO...Two people. How can you give advice on something you have never done? Unless it is follow up with...YEAH, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express!

Anyhow, I would also like to see more interest with youth in making magic entertaining, and not just the level of shock value they can achieve with it - and discovering what it is to make magic entertaining and logical.

Again, whenever we deal with any category - you can't say "all", but there are trends that exist in "new wave" magic...which is fine; however, when people give advice, or educate on something...I find many get defensive, and it is usually the youth.

So, I don't think ANY age on this forum is bad - but I think level of maturity and coming with an empty cup (open mind) - is a far better predictor of success...in magic, and this forum.

 

[Randomwrath]

Not worth debating, but I will comment: It all depends on the person. Most people under 13 suck, which sucks for the magic community, but some are really good! Age matters not to me, just how well you perform magic.

Agreed to a certain extent, it isn't about age. As I said before, I don't know who is and isn't a kid, I think that if you contribute to the community, you contribute and if you don't, you don't (logical or what, eh?). It's ok saying 'are kids good for the forums' but there are different types of kids. It's like saying 'are clowns good for the forums'. Does it matter if they're clowns or not? As long as they contribute, it's all good by me.
However I think saying that most people under 13 suck is a bit wrong. Whilst people under 13 may not have had as much experience as everyone else (not always true, Dai Vernon started performing at the age of 6-7 and therefore had a good 6 years experience under his belt by 13), I don't think you should go around saying that they're bad for the community. One, it'll discourage younger people from posting and two, where would the community be if everyone knew everything? 'Twould be a lot more boring if you ask me.

 

[4757joshua2]

I don't think you should go around saying that they're bad for the community. One, it'll discourage younger people from posting and two, where would the community be if everyone knew everything? 'Twould be a lot more boring if you ask me.

I repeat: Age matters not to me... Maybe the ones who are bad for the community will get off there butt and work to get better!

 

[Randomwrath]

I repeat: Age matters not to me... Maybe the ones who are bad for the community will get off there butt and work to get better!

How can you say that age doesn't matter straight after saying that most people under 13 suck? I'm sorry, I don't quite follow that logic...

 

[Camel]

I think it is alright to have mostly kids here. I am one. It means that they will be learning good sleight of hand young and can start making new sleights and utilities and become really great when they are older. It also means they will mature and discussions here can change (not that the discussions need to).

 

[4757joshua2]

How can you say that age doesn't matter straight after saying that most people under 13 suck? I'm sorry, I don't quite follow that logic...

They do! But that's just a tendency, being under 13 does not in any way mean that you suck automatically.

 

[Randomwrath]

They do! But that's just a tendency, being under 13 does not in any way mean that you suck automatically.

So age does matter? The problem is that that statement is made up entirely of opinion. And you contradict yourself. Just give me a yes/no answer. Does age matter?

 

[visualartist]

Well the big picture idea of T11 is for the progress of magic.
In order for that to happen, it is the younger magicians that should get the most out of these forums and the overall website.So they learn to appreciate magic and not go out and learn a bunch of tricks that they will only perform in front of a camera.
The older and more experienced magicians here should help them more than they bash.
That way they can mature and continue magic for all the right reasons.
And if at such a young age they learn all these things they're ideas will grow and the world
of magic gets a great batch of new creative minds and performers.


P.S. Thank you for giving me the great debater title. I truly appreciate it.