TV rights to an effect?

[fridoliina]

Hello everyone

I was wondering is it really possible for people who are claiming tv rights to a effect to do so?

for about 5 years the only exposure to magic was royal road to card magic and the art of astonishment books and becaus that i did have no idea about online magic shops or anything like that i started to create my own material. And when magicians are going for the same effects its very likley that alot of people comes up with the same method.

So an example could be Ellusionists factory sealed, i came up with the same idea for many years ago, same goes for stigmata. I came up with them myself before i even knew what ellusionist was. But if im not wrong, they have the tv rights to the effects?

I talked to a lawyer about it just for fun, and he said that you cant really do that and if you wanted to do an effect on tv, you could and if they tryed to stop you, you would win.

 

[Deryn]

well first thing is do you have proof of inventing these tricks before Nick and Wayne? the fact of the matter is that Nick and Wayne had these published first. This is the downside of magic.. brilliant minds.. brilliant tricks.. first come first serve.

 

[fridoliina]

Yeah sure i do.

But the thing is, I dont think you can copyright a method like the one in Factory sealed i dont want to reveal the effect but i would say its impossible to do so.

I understand that you can and should copyright a gimmick but not e method of doing a trick.

 

[Tyler Johnson]

Yeah sure i do.

But the thing is, I dont think you can copyright a method like the one in Factory sealed i dont want to reveal the effect but i would say its impossible to do so.

I understand that you can and should copyright a gimmick but not e method of doing a trick.

One of my dads friends is a very brilliant lawyer (has 3 masters degrees, one of them from Harvard Law) and I also asked him about this. He said that ideas cannot be copyrighted. Video can be copyrighted, gimmicks can be copyrighted, but ideas cannot.

So, you could perform one of these effects on television if you wanted to, they couldn't do anything. You wouldn't be doing anything against the law. But I do not recommend it as you will be frowned upon by the rest of the magic community.

Tyler

 

[fridoliina]

Well im not going to do any of them on tv i was just wondering.

Becaus i have just been around on theese online magic shops for about a year and all the time i find things that i have been working on myself without knowing about them being released im sure it happends to many people and as im just a hobby magician i dont feel like i want to put out a dvd or something just becaus i created something and wants the rights to it before someone else does.

 

[ID4]

well first thing is do you have proof of inventing these tricks before Nick and Wayne? the fact of the matter is that Nick and Wayne had these published first. This is the downside of magic.. brilliant minds.. brilliant tricks.. first come first serve.

You don't need to as the tricks are even older than Nick and Wayne. The fact of the matter really is these tricks have been published before. If you want to keep something secret. Put it in a book. The downside of magic... is that these "new" tricks aren't new at all. Wayne didn't invent Stigmata nor did Steve. Walter Gibson published it in 1967. The trick is much older than that.

 

[Moore Majik]

Is there a disclaimer that says you cant do Stigmata or Factory Sealed on TV? If there is, than how wouldnt you get in trouble for doing it on tv if there is clearly a tv rights claim?

 

[praetoritevong]

Occasionally, you do see effects sold with TV and other performance rights reserved. I've always been curious as to how well they'd hold up. Apparently, not very well in a legal sense.

Although Tyler has hit the nail here - how the magical community reacts is a very different matter. And whilst much of the community probably is misguided (Steerpike would use stronger words here), it's definitely an important factor to consider.

To the OP, I know exactly what you mean, by the way. I inadvertently "invented" Postmentalism by Alvo Stockman (small plug for a great effect - café mentalism at its best) after about a year of fiddling around with the gimmick. I wondered the same things.

 

[William Draven]

Here's the deal. In magic you have a ethics vs legality. Legally speaking, you could perform the effects for TV and not much would happen. Ethically though, you may want to ask the creators permission to perform the effect first.

 

[j.bayme]

There are four things at work in magic: copyrights, patents, intellectual property, and ethics.

The Wright Brothers weren't the first ones to build an airplane. Eli Whitney didn't invent the cotton gin. He, in 1794, and they, in 1906, were the first ones to patent it. There's a world of difference between the two. With the chaos that is the United States Patent Office right now, coupled with the fact that patents are publicized, typically magic effects are not patented (there are exceptions).

Magic videos - or songs from Eminem - are copyrighted. For example, a clip from David Blaine's last special is copyrighted, as is the script to Inception. Copyright protection is what prevents you from uploading or downloading the new Social Network movie (well, legally). Intellectual property is the third thing at work here - which includes all of the above and any "creation of the mind." This also includes trade secrets, which have historically been used to attempt to protect magic secrets. Often unsuccessfully. It largely depends on the circumstances.

Lastly, there is simple ethics. This is the dominant factor. Anyone that is performing a magic effect on television is being compensated for doing so, either in free publicity or directly: financially. Accordingly, they want the performance to be as powerful and impressive as possible - and seek out the best possible effect(s) to present.

In order to do so, it is generally considered best practice to request and receive permission prior to performance on television. Just this past week, I spoke with Apollo Robbins about an idea for an upcoming television performance - and his first thought was to immediately contact the creator to receive his blessing. The creator was more than gracious in extending permission, and that was the end of that.

 

[Haunter]

I think it is a very awesome gesture to ask for the creators blessing prior to performing the effect on a large scale like tv. If given the opportunity to perform on tv it is certainly the course of action I would take. That being said, I would think it excessive for the creator to expect anyone to do so or to get mad at a performer for failing to do so.

 

[Randy]

Or you could simply perform things that you won't need any permission to perform. IE: an Ambitious card routine or some thing like that. Those are usually the things that most magicians or people in the know would freak out over.