"75% of performances are poor...." -- Fitzkee

[RickEverhart]

So do I win an award for starting a good thread? Ha Ha. Just kidding. Man...lots of powerful info thrown out here fellas. Love it.

 

[RediSpades]

I would say that most kids show magicians fit Fitzke's statistics perfectly.... 75% are awful and 24% are mediocre. They all seem to perform the same tricks using the same props and the same patter. Let's be honest, those are the performers who are responsible for choosing to perform the "BAD" magic. My rule for a kids show effect is that if it can't work for an adult show, don't use it.

I am not sure that I fully agree with you here, Reality. The truth is, a good kid's show (in any other form of entertainment) would never, ever work for adults nine times out of ten. This also applies vice versa because we have different trains of thoughts on what is entertaining and what is not. Granted, I agree with the fact that most kid's magicians fall into the 99% because they don't follow the same ways of improving their show. But the day someone starts throwing in card tricks or mentalism (which I have always found too advanced for kids) into their birthday party routine, I think we would find someone who has really lost touch with his craft.

If I am have miss quoted you, or taken this idea to the extreme, I apologize. I just don't want people thinking that all the tricks for a kid's show have to work for adults also, because I just don't see the two entertainment styles coalescing.

 

[Steerpike]

Elites are to be respected Steerpike. People who claim to be elite, in my experience, are to be suspected.

I can agree that a great man doesn't need to tell you he's great. I've just been very wary lately because of this growing trend I've noticed in the last couple of years that "elite" and "expert" are becoming pejoratives.

Oh....and if you don't think underdogs need defending then why did you so vehemently defend those poor maligned little brats I was talking about? See steerpike! Even you like to play the good guy sometimes

But I like kids. I just don't like magicians. And as someone who works in the entertainment industry, I feel some responsibility to speak up when I see (or at least perceive) an idea that's bad for the industry and/or the audience being promoted. Am I bit too quick on the draw? Probably. I come from a very outspoken family.

My statement was merely to say that magic is way harder than any other art form that I have ever tried to do. The amount of time and energy that I have put into this art is no where near the time I have spent as a guitarist, and I would have to say that my guitar skills are still better. (Side note: yes you can get by as a decent guitarist with just a few chords. How many songs are really based off of the chords of Em, G, F, D, C, and A? =P Just food for thought)

I believe there's a clear difference between getting by and actually being good at what you do.

I am not sure that I fully agree with you here, Reality. The truth is, a good kid's show (in any other form of entertainment) would never, ever work for adults nine times out of ten. This also applies vice versa because we have different trains of thoughts on what is entertaining and what is not.

I have to disagree. I loved The Iron Giant and that's a kids movie. I'm a huge fan of PS238, even though it's intended for children. And I have joined the bandwagon as it were and also watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic unironically.

The thing is, kids don't process different information than adults. They look at the same information and interpret it in different ways. The challenge of all-audiences entertainment is to create a multi-faceted experience that can be enjoyed on different levels. It's a difficult goal, but very attainable.

By no means am I saying we should have children watching Ingmar Bergman and Jean Luc Godard movies. But The Incredibles was a movie that any person of any age could enjoy because it gave people of all different age groups something to chew on. If movies can do that, why can't we?

This is where incorporating lessons from other media comes in. There are universal principles of aesthetics, design, and narrative structure that transcend genre and speak to people on different levels. The more media you absorb, the more you learn how to recognize these patterns, the better you are able to construct a work with broader appeal. The hero's journey is something we all appreciate on a subconscious level and it's one of the biggest factors in the success of Star Wars. Children, teenagers and adults all love the movie because it's a story we all understand and love on a subconscious level.

In short, the reason most adults don't like seeing all-ages entertainment isn't because the thoughts of children and adults are fundamentally incompatible, but because most of it just plain sucks.

 

[RealityOne]

I am not sure that I fully agree with you here, Reality. The truth is, a good kid's show (in any other form of entertainment) would never, ever work for adults nine times out of ten. This also applies vice versa because we have different trains of thoughts on what is entertaining and what is not. Granted, I agree with the fact that most kid's magicians fall into the 99% because they don't follow the same ways of improving their show. But the day someone starts throwing in card tricks or mentalism (which I have always found too advanced for kids) into their birthday party routine, I think we would find someone who has really lost touch with his craft.

If I am have miss quoted you, or taken this idea to the extreme, I apologize. I just don't want people thinking that all the tricks for a kid's show have to work for adults also, because I just don't see the two entertainment styles coalescing.

I think you got the general idea of what I'm saying correct. It would have been more accurate for me to say that I think that the effects you use for a kids show should appeal to adults. That means the magic itself is strong and the presentation engages children and adults each at a different level. I'll use different films than Steerpike did as an analogy. Look at Toy Story 3 and the first Cars move - both of them appeal to children as well as adults.

Now for an adults only audience, I could perform the same effects, but I would change the presentation because it is no longer necessary to appeal to a range of ages. I agree that there are effects that I perform for adults that I wouldn't perform if children are present.

That being said, I've performed card effects (e.g. Mark Wilson's Bigger Card, Aldo Columbini's Punch My Match, Rachel Wild Columbini's Animal Capers and McCombical Deck) for 6 year old kids with lots of success. Of course, I wouldn't do a gambling expose, but cards are like any other prop -- the right effect if presented well can work for kids. Also, I've used some mental magic (e.g. Mark Wilson's Tic Tac Toe and John Bannon's Miraskill) for kids that are 7 years old an up.

 

[Felspar]

I strive to give my best not only in magic, but pretty much everything I do. This just makes me want to work that much harder to make sure I do what I can to deliver the best performance possible to my audience.