Are spectators just stupid?

[ZachMueller]

This past weekend a friend and I decided to go film some street magic. Only, we decided to be as awful, and horrible as possible. Just crappy, terrible magic, with zero patter, and dreadful handling. We tried to make it as awkward for the spectators as possible in hopes of getting really bad reactions for the video. Think what you will of that idea, but the truth is - it didn't work.

People still loved it. We were horrible. The magic was horrible. We made a conscious effort to flash card controls, slightly split double lifts, and even dropped cards intentionally. And yet still, with all that said, when the card changed in their hand, they flipped their isht. All of the awkwardness and bad handling that occurred before the climax of the trick seemed to be instantly redeemed.

We literally did a double undercut, with a 3 inch finger break, a horrible double to show the top card, and had it change in their hand. Any magician would have burst out laughing at how horrible it was - that was the point of the video. To make it so bad it was funny. But the spectators still loved it.

So I wonder - are spectators just stupid? Do they not realize what is bad? Or is it simply that they have zero expectation of what magic should be, so they enjoy what they get?

I perform at a 50's diner for lunch occasionally throughout the month, and my 3-4 minute set is just what I want it to be - funny, entertaining, charming, magical and skillful. Strip all that down to the bare bones, just keeping the lowest form of magic left and you get what we performed on the street. And yet, the reactions were so similar. It is magic at the core, and even if done horribly, the reactions to just the magic itself - not counting reactions to the humor, charm, and skill that I usually try to convey in my effects - produced almost identical gasps and reactions.

Now personally for me, it's a huge difference because I don't do magic to just perform an effect, I do magic to entertain people with me. My magic effects are a vehicle of which my personality gets delivered to the audience, rather than the effect being the personality itself. However, if we are talking bare bones magic, just the effect, the card changing... It didn't seem to matter to that audience in what way you got to that climax, well done or horribly done, the end reaction was the same.

So if disregarding the magician, and how the spectator perceives you as a person, or your skill, or your wit, or likability, just talking about the pure effect - does it really matter how you get there? In the spectators mind, do they just perceive the end effect? Is a card changing in a spectators hand performed by Chris Kenner with precision the same thing in the spectators mind as some kid who learned the trick an hour earlier? In the end, don't they just remember that card changed?

I've seen some horrible, unintentionally dreadful magicians. Both on youtube, and even places like the Magic Castle. I enjoy watching bad magic, but the spectators (those who have no previous expectations) seem to enjoy it just the same as if they were watching a brilliant act.

So are the spectators just stupid? I don't really understand it. I'd be interested to see your thoughts, as it's an idea I haven't really seen explored. I've read plenty of thread lately on how to improve performance and patter, and in the spectators mind, I am pondering if it even matters. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

~Zach

 

[Toby]

First of all, the idea for the project is terrible (actually the reason for it, "to be funny"). But second of all, I think it was a great research (if you can call it that), and it gave us all something to think about.
We all know that magicians tend to go into such small details for both patter and effect, that it is sometimes ridiculous. But where is the line? How will you know when effect is tuned so much, that any other changes or upgrades will just not matter to/fly by the audience?
I don't think that spectators are stupid. In fact, I just think you were lucky to not run into any of those "mean hecklers". Or maybe you were so bad, that they felt sorry for you, so they cheered and screamed out of compassion.

Anyways, great topic, can't wait to see what others have to say.

 

[Andrei]

That's a great experiment, I wish I was there to see it. Maybe it's the fact that you're a very likeable guy? Maybe it was potentially attributed to people not being able to resist the sexiness? Would the reactions have been the same if you were not around? The world may never know...

 

[TeeDee]

I think that's a brilliant idea for a project. It could be really useful for streamlining your magic and working out what is actually necessary and effective when performing in the real world. At Blackpool a couple of years ago Kostya Kimlat said that he got a reaction just from running through the deck and upjogging the aces, so maybe the next step is to try and perform a routine with no real effects in it, and just to see if force of personality and the spectator's belief that you are a magician can force reactions out of them!

To answer the question directly, no, I don't think spectators are stupid. Some of them are, just because, on average, some people are stupid. However, people who agree to be stopped and filmed in the street are a bit of a self-selecting sample. They're likely to be quite suggestible, and obviously aren't too shy. If you point a camera at people, you tend to get one of two results. Either they shrink into themselves and become very nervous, or they feel the need to "put on a show". I would question whether you would have got the same reactions if you weren't filming, or if you did the same thing in a different context (ie, people who came out specifically to see magic).

 

[Jenai]

I've actually thought of something that kind of relates to this (in some small way). I think its either as you said people have no previous expectations of magic. Or maybe the exact opposite...people do have expectations...and in their head...thats how they're "supposed to react". When you see a professional looking guy with a camera...even if you don't get what he dod or the effect doesn't make sense or its just down right horrible, perhaps they feel they're supposed to react like the people they see on TV. And if you perform for one group and they react with screams, perhaps a nearby group (your next spectators) also feel compelled to react the same way. So maybe its one of the two... I personally feel this is a very good experiment...Im interested in this kind of stuff, the psychology, theory and why we do what we do. So I find it really intriguing

Will add to this if I think of anything else

- Jenai

 

[SleightedMind]

Being careless and messy is a really good approach in magic. Watch Lennart Green for instance, he looks like he doesn't even know how to shuffle the deck, but this is exactly what makes his performance stronger. The spectators assume that if he cannot shuffle, he can't manipulate, hence the magic element.

To illustrate my point further, look at a mechanic doing a gambling expose. If they're not used to play cards for money, most people simply don't have a nearly as good reaction to perfectly dealt seconds as they do for a simple magic trick.

We could even look at the everlasting clash on the idea of flourishing while doing magic: does it kill it or enhance it?
If I can take 2 extremes, Lennart Green seems to get way better reactions from laymen than Dan & Dave got.

Ultimately, I have the feeling that the way you handle card does not matter; only you have to appear careless. Never struggle on a move, and you will have both the miracle of the trick and the fluidity of the magi.

 

[greenstickman]

Actually I was at a golf expo the other day performing some magic for someone who is a juggler and we got talking about something very similar to this. What it was, is that the spectators remember your personality and your showmanship more than they remember your skills as say sleight of hand artist, or maybe a flourisher, or a juggler, or whatever it is that makes you able to call yourself a performer. What the juggler said was, (I'm not sure if I should say his name, lol) "You could take two performers and have them perform for the same audience and the performer with the better personality/showmanship would always win despite the fact that the other performer might be a thousand times more skilled." Anyways just something to think about. It makes one wonder if it's really more important to practice sleights than it is to practice having an outgoing personality and good showmanship.

 

[Goldmos]

Well, I'm completly new to the magic universe. I'm 27 years old but was compelling by magic since my childhood. I'm really happy to have discovered this site and now I can do some magic. What did the greatest impression to me is to see someone doing something that I can't do. I think it boiled down to that: if your spectator can't do magic and have no clue on how you make the trick (even if it's baddly perform) you'll get a result. In my case, I began to do the classic change for my girlfriend and neibourgh and some coworker. I was nervous as hell because I never practice any magic before. I have a long way to be "good", but each and every time I did it (about 5 time already) I always got the same reaction: WTF. So, maybe I'm good (wich I don't really think at that point) but I think it's because I did something that they can't do. Sorry for my english by the way, not my primary language.

 

[Luis Vega]

This past weekend a friend and I decided to go film some street magic. Only, we decided to be as awful, and horrible as possible. Just crappy, terrible magic, with zero patter, and dreadful handling. We tried to make it as awkward for the spectators as possible in hopes of getting really bad reactions for the video. Think what you will of that idea, but the truth is - it didn't work.

People still loved it. We were horrible. The magic was horrible. We made a conscious effort to flash card controls, slightly split double lifts, and even dropped cards intentionally. And yet still, with all that said, when the card changed in their hand, they flipped their isht. All of the awkwardness and bad handling that occurred before the climax of the trick seemed to be instantly redeemed.

We literally did a double undercut, with a 3 inch finger break, a horrible double to show the top card, and had it change in their hand. Any magician would have burst out laughing at how horrible it was - that was the point of the video. To make it so bad it was funny. But the spectators still loved it.

So I wonder - are spectators just stupid? Do they not realize what is bad? Or is it simply that they have zero expectation of what magic should be, so they enjoy what they get?

I perform at a 50's diner for lunch occasionally throughout the month, and my 3-4 minute set is just what I want it to be - funny, entertaining, charming, magical and skillful. Strip all that down to the bare bones, just keeping the lowest form of magic left and you get what we performed on the street. And yet, the reactions were so similar. It is magic at the core, and even if done horribly, the reactions to just the magic itself - not counting reactions to the humor, charm, and skill that I usually try to convey in my effects - produced almost identical gasps and reactions.

Now personally for me, it's a huge difference because I don't do magic to just perform an effect, I do magic to entertain people with me. My magic effects are a vehicle of which my personality gets delivered to the audience, rather than the effect being the personality itself. However, if we are talking bare bones magic, just the effect, the card changing... It didn't seem to matter to that audience in what way you got to that climax, well done or horribly done, the end reaction was the same.

So if disregarding the magician, and how the spectator perceives you as a person, or your skill, or your wit, or likability, just talking about the pure effect - does it really matter how you get there? In the spectators mind, do they just perceive the end effect? Is a card changing in a spectators hand performed by Chris Kenner with precision the same thing in the spectators mind as some kid who learned the trick an hour earlier? In the end, don't they just remember that card changed?

I've seen some horrible, unintentionally dreadful magicians. Both on youtube, and even places like the Magic Castle. I enjoy watching bad magic, but the spectators (those who have no previous expectations) seem to enjoy it just the same as if they were watching a brilliant act.

So are the spectators just stupid? I don't really understand it. I'd be interested to see your thoughts, as it's an idea I haven't really seen explored. I've read plenty of thread lately on how to improve performance and patter, and in the spectators mind, I am pondering if it even matters. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

~Zach

The spectators are not stupid...never, ever...

It depends of the attitude you are approaching them...you should have tried to do great magic while being an arrogant jack-ace...
if you do bad magic with a great attitude it`s normal that people will enjoy it...

 

[chriswiehl]

also lots of people have no prior experience with magic at all. so lets say you have never heard music before, and you walk across some guy playing chopsticks or smells like teen spirit, you would probably be like wtf is that?! its awesome! you can do that?!
even if the guy kinda sucks, its experience.
then when you go to a real concert you would probably poop yourself because what you previously heard was nothing close to it.
but if you started out going to a concert you would probabl ybe like WTF this is awesome. though it is better, you have never had anything to compare it too.
so the next time they see magic they will probably be like omg i saw this guy who was nothing as good as you

 

[RDChopper]

Being careless and messy is a really good approach in magic. Watch Lennart Green for instance, he looks like he doesn't even know how to shuffle the deck, but this is exactly what makes his performance stronger. The spectators assume that if he cannot shuffle, he can't manipulate, hence the magic element.

To illustrate my point further, look at a mechanic doing a gambling expose. If they're not used to play cards for money, most people simply don't have a nearly as good reaction to perfectly dealt seconds as they do for a simple magic trick.

We could even look at the everlasting clash on the idea of flourishing while doing magic: does it kill it or enhance it?
If I can take 2 extremes, Lennart Green seems to get way better reactions from laymen than Dan & Dave got.

Ultimately, I have the feeling that the way you handle card does not matter; only you have to appear careless. Never struggle on a move, and you will have both the miracle of the trick and the fluidity of the magi.

Agreed.

I personally think that it was a terrible idea. Second of all, you didn't do it with the purpose of a research, from what you wrote, you did it on the sole purpose of enterteining yourself.

You talk about enterteining people, yet you did this solely on the purpose of having some reactions caught on camera so you could laugh about it later. Really egoistical in my opinion.

Anyway, I pretty much have the same viewpoint as the guy I quoted.

 

[ReservoirRed]

@Zach

You are a crazy person. That is all.

 

[Luis Vega]

Agreed.

I personally think that it was a terrible idea. Second of all, you didn't do it with the purpose of a research, from what you wrote, you did it on the sole purpose of enterteining yourself.

You talk about enterteining people, yet you did this solely on the purpose of having some reactions caught on camera so you could laugh about it later. Really egoistical in my opinion.

Anyway, I pretty much have the same viewpoint as the guy I quoted.

pa que te aguitas!! ya sabes como es este niño riquillo... jejeje....

 

[CaseyRudd]

Same thing could be said if you are in the middle of performing, and you mess up or flash on a sleight (according to you). After this, the magician thinks the effect is ruined because he/she thinks the spectator knows what you did. After this, you start to hesitate or want to cancel what you originated with. What if they didn't see it? Why did you stop the trick for something that they didn't see? It wouldn't make sense either way. It would always be best to continue on with a trick, even if you think you flash. Odds are, if you're doing a good job, they won't notice unless an elephant drops out your sleeve, or a duck jumps out at your audience....actually that makes perfect time to execute a sleight...

 

[notsoltd]

they won't notice unless an elephant drops out your sleeve, or a duck jumps out at your audience....actually that makes perfect time to execute a sleight...

or switch your regular pack for an invisible deck haha!

 

[KINGOFHE4RTS]

This past weekend a friend and I decided to go film some street magic. Only, we decided to be as awful, and horrible as possible. Just crappy, terrible magic, with zero patter, and dreadful handling. We tried to make it as awkward for the spectators as possible in hopes of getting really bad reactions for the video. Think what you will of that idea, but the truth is - it didn't work.

People still loved it. We were horrible. The magic was horrible. We made a conscious effort to flash card controls, slightly split double lifts, and even dropped cards intentionally. And yet still, with all that said, when the card changed in their hand, they flipped their isht. All of the awkwardness and bad handling that occurred before the climax of the trick seemed to be instantly redeemed.

We literally did a double undercut, with a 3 inch finger break, a horrible double to show the top card, and had it change in their hand. Any magician would have burst out laughing at how horrible it was - that was the point of the video. To make it so bad it was funny. But the spectators still loved it.

So I wonder - are spectators just stupid? Do they not realize what is bad? Or is it simply that they have zero expectation of what magic should be, so they enjoy what they get?

I perform at a 50's diner for lunch occasionally throughout the month, and my 3-4 minute set is just what I want it to be - funny, entertaining, charming, magical and skillful. Strip all that down to the bare bones, just keeping the lowest form of magic left and you get what we performed on the street. And yet, the reactions were so similar. It is magic at the core, and even if done horribly, the reactions to just the magic itself - not counting reactions to the humor, charm, and skill that I usually try to convey in my effects - produced almost identical gasps and reactions.

Now personally for me, it's a huge difference because I don't do magic to just perform an effect, I do magic to entertain people with me. My magic effects are a vehicle of which my personality gets delivered to the audience, rather than the effect being the personality itself. However, if we are talking bare bones magic, just the effect, the card changing... It didn't seem to matter to that audience in what way you got to that climax, well done or horribly done, the end reaction was the same.

So if disregarding the magician, and how the spectator perceives you as a person, or your skill, or your wit, or likability, just talking about the pure effect - does it really matter how you get there? In the spectators mind, do they just perceive the end effect? Is a card changing in a spectators hand performed by Chris Kenner with precision the same thing in the spectators mind as some kid who learned the trick an hour earlier? In the end, don't they just remember that card changed?

I've seen some horrible, unintentionally dreadful magicians. Both on youtube, and even places like the Magic Castle. I enjoy watching bad magic, but the spectators (those who have no previous expectations) seem to enjoy it just the same as if they were watching a brilliant act.

So are the spectators just stupid? I don't really understand it. I'd be interested to see your thoughts, as it's an idea I haven't really seen explored. I've read plenty of thread lately on how to improve performance and patter, and in the spectators mind, I am pondering if it even matters. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

~Zach

I can totally relate to this. Once in a while, some 12-year-old on YouTube will do a trick horribly, exposing everything, yet the people who comment say, "Great Performance" or "Very Smooth" which angers me.

Interesting research, but I don't suggest you do this as you are more likely to have a heckler come along, making it easier for them to expose you.

 

[TheatreHead]

The spectators are not stupid...never, ever...

It depends of the attitude you are approaching them...you should have tried to do great magic while being an arrogant jack-ace...
if you do bad magic with a great attitude it`s normal that people will enjoy it...

This.

The spectators see what they want to see. If you're a nice guy, and you come across as wanting to give them a good time, they'll have a good time.
If you're an *******, and you come across as wanting to just show how stupid your spectators really are, they will do everything to make sure you don't succeed.

 

[S.G]

I recall watching magic for the first time. The performer kept saying this story but I couldn't have cared less. I as a spectator realized that the story was just to make it more dramatic. Therefore, I really did not care for it at all.

I just wanted to see the dang trick!

I think that a lot of spectators are this way. My friends (and my dad) often give me a bored look when I start to tell a story to go along with the tricks. I personally don't like patter. Maybe I just can't make it work but regardless, I don't perform much magic anyway.

 

[ChrisWiens]

You don`t need to tell big stories.
Give your magic a meaning and a structure that makes sense.
Just doing effects is not doing magic IMO. It´s showing your (technical) skills to look good in front of others. It´s like bread without butter, like a Hitchcock movie that starts with the climax, without building up the suspense.
The effects shouldn`t be overshadowed by any means, but a trick is lifeless without these ingredients.

 

[ZachMueller]

Interesting replies. Looking forward to seeing what others thing.