Bee Erdnase (Ivory Finish) Deck by: The Conjuring Arts Research Center
Where to buy: Secondary Market
**to get the next run of these at a cheaper price you will need to join the Conjuring Arts Research Center http://conjuringarts.org/ **
Price: $8.00 / deck(at the time of the review)
For more information about my reviewing methods and a list of other reviews: http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?26851-Deck-Review-Template&highlight=deck
If you are interested in my Buyers guide
check out this link:
http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?30984-Playing-Card-Buyers-Guide
Video Review Suppliment For "Ivory Finish" Deck...(No Vid for Cambric yet) http://vimeo.com/19883667
Initial Impressions:
Another good deck that looks great and pays homage to the book (Expert at the Card Table) that inspired the legend (Dai Vernon) that has inspired the last three to four generations of close-up magicians. The “Erdnase” deck comes on a stock and with finish options that will likely appeal to a wider range of magicians than the “Expert At The Card Table” Decks did but I don’t forsee it reaching the “cult” status that those cards reached.
The Look:
One of the coolest back designs ever concocted. The original run came in a borderless design though the ones I am reviewing(Ivory and Cambric finishes) come with a white border. The back is the same green as the original “Expert At The Card Table” book and instead of the usual Bee diamonds the background is filled up with miniature images of hands performing various techniques found in the book. [The hand images are pretty small so I can’t guarantee you the accuracy of this but it appears that the images are: Fig. 18- Indicating cut location from a crimp. Fig. 25- Bottom deal. Fig. 32- Stock Shuffle. And Fig. 44- Bottom Palm when cards are riffled. ] In the dead center of the back is a circle with four crossed acorn images set in a flower pattern. Jutting out from the small acorn circle are two larger circles that have a 1902 at the top and have a fancy SWE scrolled in the center. The Ace of Spades is a standard Bee tax stamp. The Jokers have sketch art of a man sitting at a card table, his back turned, and two aces can be seen on the table. The court cards are the “large image” court cards that many have seen on the Arrco decks. Though I don’t see anything unusual about the queens or jacks it is obvious that the kings all represent someone who had a hand in this deck. Those familiar with the split spade decks will recognize David Blaine on the King of Spades. I am fairly certain that Guy Hollingsworth’s profile view is used for the King of Diamonds. The King of Harts is Bill Kalush(founder of the Conjuring Arts). The King of Clubs is definitely another magician as well, at least different from standard artwork, but I have yet to identifu who?
Card Construction:
These decks are printed on the Bee Casino Grade stock. This is a thicker and stiffer stock than the standard Bee stock. Indeed it is reminiscent of the UV500 stock. There are two specific versions of the Erdnase cards. They come in standard Cambric pressed stock and in a smooth Ivory Stock. The Cambric will likely appeal to those who loved the now deceased UV500 stock and the Ivory might appeal to those who miss the Steamboat stock(though it is a much thicker card.) The Ivory finish cards will also have a stiffer feel to them than the Cambric. On the initial OOB measurements both the Cambric and Ivory versions were about 15.5 mm thick, about the same as Bicycle 808 stock, though I can say from experience(this review being written up about a week and a half into the Ivory longevity review) that the Ivory stock seems to swell quite a bit.
Handling(Ivory)
About the biggest thing I can say about the Ivory handling is the size. These swelled up to a little over 16 mm in thickness in just over a week. When I compare it to a bike 808 deck it now is about 4-5 cards thicker. If you like thick decks, that’s great, if you don’t, that is a drawback.
Fanning: OOB: 8
1st Week: 8.5
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
Like most smooth finish decks the Ivory Erdnase cards will likely need to be broken in before it hits its peak.
Spring Energy: OOB: 8.5
1st Week: 7.5
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
This deck certainly surprised me. With the loss of the Steamboat and UV500 I didn’t think USPCC still made a stock this stiff and springy. It does seem to loosen up quicker than many other stocks.
Dribble: OOB: 7
1st Week: 8
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
Probably not a good choice for those who use dribbles in a flourish fashion but it will work find for covering shifts and forces.
Crimp Hold/Recovery: OOB: 6
1st Week: 6
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
Wow! I am used to stiffer stocks holding up better in this area. This deck isn’t particularly good at holding intentional crimps nor repairing from unintentional crimps.
Single Card Glides: OOB: 7.5
1st Week: 8
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
The combination of stiffer stock and smooth finish certainly help performance in this area however, because of this decks growing size, I am having some difficulties with longitudinal glides unless I leave out a few cards.
2+ Card Obfuscations: OOB: 8.5
1st Week: 8
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
As would be expected from a smooth finish and stiff stock this is definitely a high performance deck for these types of sleights.
Gaff construction and availability: None that I know of
XCM Flourishing: This would be a good deck for flourishers who lean towards packet cuts and aerial packet aerials.
Who Should Buy?: Fans of Erdnase, supporters of the Conjuring Arts Research Center, People who love the Bee Casino Grade stock, and people who like smooth finish USPCC cards.
Who should not buy: Experienced card men who prefer softer stocks and newbies who have yet to develop the hand strength necessary to handle stiffer cards. Because of the swelling I would not recommend this for people with smaller hands(though if you really love the look you can always remove a few cards before practice and performance.)
Final thoughts:
So far I am a little Meh…about this deck. Because it is “Erdnase” I was expecting a deck more suited for gambling demos. Though the smooth finish lends itself well towards certain shuffling demonstrations I found the thicker and stiffer stock seemed to work against it in this area. While it would be a great deck for a walk-around performer it still won’t quite match the performance of some of the stiff and smooth decks from Europe. USPCC just seems too obsessed with the fanning attribute of their decks. The greatest stiff, smooth finish decks(Fournier, Anglo Rugs, and Piatniks) seem to be willing to sacrifice performance in that attribute for high performance in all the other attributes that make a great deck. The Ivory Erdnase on casino grade stock just won’t match it’s little brother(the EATCT deck) in table magic miracles, nor will it top the high end performance of the knuckle busting masters from Europe, and worst of all it doesn’t even seem to match the strengths of many of the fine custom decks that appeal to the generalist performers(Ellusionist and T-11 Decks.) No doubt this will likely be a pretty durable deck(I just have a hunch on that) but so far, while I love the looks, I’m not impressed with it’s performance.
Where to buy: Secondary Market
**to get the next run of these at a cheaper price you will need to join the Conjuring Arts Research Center http://conjuringarts.org/ **
Price: $8.00 / deck(at the time of the review)
For more information about my reviewing methods and a list of other reviews: http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?26851-Deck-Review-Template&highlight=deck
If you are interested in my Buyers guide
check out this link:
http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?30984-Playing-Card-Buyers-Guide
Video Review Suppliment For "Ivory Finish" Deck...(No Vid for Cambric yet) http://vimeo.com/19883667
Initial Impressions:
Another good deck that looks great and pays homage to the book (Expert at the Card Table) that inspired the legend (Dai Vernon) that has inspired the last three to four generations of close-up magicians. The “Erdnase” deck comes on a stock and with finish options that will likely appeal to a wider range of magicians than the “Expert At The Card Table” Decks did but I don’t forsee it reaching the “cult” status that those cards reached.
The Look:
One of the coolest back designs ever concocted. The original run came in a borderless design though the ones I am reviewing(Ivory and Cambric finishes) come with a white border. The back is the same green as the original “Expert At The Card Table” book and instead of the usual Bee diamonds the background is filled up with miniature images of hands performing various techniques found in the book. [The hand images are pretty small so I can’t guarantee you the accuracy of this but it appears that the images are: Fig. 18- Indicating cut location from a crimp. Fig. 25- Bottom deal. Fig. 32- Stock Shuffle. And Fig. 44- Bottom Palm when cards are riffled. ] In the dead center of the back is a circle with four crossed acorn images set in a flower pattern. Jutting out from the small acorn circle are two larger circles that have a 1902 at the top and have a fancy SWE scrolled in the center. The Ace of Spades is a standard Bee tax stamp. The Jokers have sketch art of a man sitting at a card table, his back turned, and two aces can be seen on the table. The court cards are the “large image” court cards that many have seen on the Arrco decks. Though I don’t see anything unusual about the queens or jacks it is obvious that the kings all represent someone who had a hand in this deck. Those familiar with the split spade decks will recognize David Blaine on the King of Spades. I am fairly certain that Guy Hollingsworth’s profile view is used for the King of Diamonds. The King of Harts is Bill Kalush(founder of the Conjuring Arts). The King of Clubs is definitely another magician as well, at least different from standard artwork, but I have yet to identifu who?
Card Construction:
These decks are printed on the Bee Casino Grade stock. This is a thicker and stiffer stock than the standard Bee stock. Indeed it is reminiscent of the UV500 stock. There are two specific versions of the Erdnase cards. They come in standard Cambric pressed stock and in a smooth Ivory Stock. The Cambric will likely appeal to those who loved the now deceased UV500 stock and the Ivory might appeal to those who miss the Steamboat stock(though it is a much thicker card.) The Ivory finish cards will also have a stiffer feel to them than the Cambric. On the initial OOB measurements both the Cambric and Ivory versions were about 15.5 mm thick, about the same as Bicycle 808 stock, though I can say from experience(this review being written up about a week and a half into the Ivory longevity review) that the Ivory stock seems to swell quite a bit.
Handling(Ivory)
About the biggest thing I can say about the Ivory handling is the size. These swelled up to a little over 16 mm in thickness in just over a week. When I compare it to a bike 808 deck it now is about 4-5 cards thicker. If you like thick decks, that’s great, if you don’t, that is a drawback.
Fanning: OOB: 8
1st Week: 8.5
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
Like most smooth finish decks the Ivory Erdnase cards will likely need to be broken in before it hits its peak.
Spring Energy: OOB: 8.5
1st Week: 7.5
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
This deck certainly surprised me. With the loss of the Steamboat and UV500 I didn’t think USPCC still made a stock this stiff and springy. It does seem to loosen up quicker than many other stocks.
Dribble: OOB: 7
1st Week: 8
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
Probably not a good choice for those who use dribbles in a flourish fashion but it will work find for covering shifts and forces.
Crimp Hold/Recovery: OOB: 6
1st Week: 6
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
Wow! I am used to stiffer stocks holding up better in this area. This deck isn’t particularly good at holding intentional crimps nor repairing from unintentional crimps.
Single Card Glides: OOB: 7.5
1st Week: 8
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
The combination of stiffer stock and smooth finish certainly help performance in this area however, because of this decks growing size, I am having some difficulties with longitudinal glides unless I leave out a few cards.
2+ Card Obfuscations: OOB: 8.5
1st Week: 8
2nd Week: TBD
3rd Week: TBD
4th Week: TBD
As would be expected from a smooth finish and stiff stock this is definitely a high performance deck for these types of sleights.
Gaff construction and availability: None that I know of
XCM Flourishing: This would be a good deck for flourishers who lean towards packet cuts and aerial packet aerials.
Who Should Buy?: Fans of Erdnase, supporters of the Conjuring Arts Research Center, People who love the Bee Casino Grade stock, and people who like smooth finish USPCC cards.
Who should not buy: Experienced card men who prefer softer stocks and newbies who have yet to develop the hand strength necessary to handle stiffer cards. Because of the swelling I would not recommend this for people with smaller hands(though if you really love the look you can always remove a few cards before practice and performance.)
Final thoughts:
So far I am a little Meh…about this deck. Because it is “Erdnase” I was expecting a deck more suited for gambling demos. Though the smooth finish lends itself well towards certain shuffling demonstrations I found the thicker and stiffer stock seemed to work against it in this area. While it would be a great deck for a walk-around performer it still won’t quite match the performance of some of the stiff and smooth decks from Europe. USPCC just seems too obsessed with the fanning attribute of their decks. The greatest stiff, smooth finish decks(Fournier, Anglo Rugs, and Piatniks) seem to be willing to sacrifice performance in that attribute for high performance in all the other attributes that make a great deck. The Ivory Erdnase on casino grade stock just won’t match it’s little brother(the EATCT deck) in table magic miracles, nor will it top the high end performance of the knuckle busting masters from Europe, and worst of all it doesn’t even seem to match the strengths of many of the fine custom decks that appeal to the generalist performers(Ellusionist and T-11 Decks.) No doubt this will likely be a pretty durable deck(I just have a hunch on that) but so far, while I love the looks, I’m not impressed with it’s performance.
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