Busking In Restaurants

[Luis Vega]

Hello everybody!!

I wanted to ask you all something...

So as some people here know I work in some restaurants...but a thread I posted in the Magic Cafe got some responses that what I was doing was wrong...basically busking in restaurants...

So I felt I was doing nothing wrong, since I was winning good money, the managers of the restaurants were very happy and most importantly the costumers were happy...but some magicians there told me it was untehical since I was cutting off other magicians in the area and I was spreading the idea my magic didn`t have value..sort of...by working by free...

Now...this all started because I posted some advice I thought could help some begginers into landing a job in a restaurant...

Now I feel I busk because of my circunstances not because I wanted (managers can`t afford my price, there are a lot of restaurants to be only in one and I am the only active magician in my city, sometimes it`s low on people, I got to test myself in different environments, I got to make a name by myself)

but I want to hear your thoughts on this matter...

 

[Mr.MadMan]

Like are you working for tips only?
If so then thats what a lot of restaurant workers do. Because most of the time they get more money that way than from the restaurant.

IF you get paid from the restaurant it self then some good advice from David Stone was to not accept the money from coustomers and instead say that they would give it to the waitresses who in turn will probably split the money two ways.

Anyway, i see no problem in busking in restaurants.

M.

 

[Luis Vega]

Oh!! you are right I forgot to mention that I work solely on tips!!!

 

[RickEverhart]

I see no problem at all with the following:

Working and getting paid by the establishment, but then NOT accepting the tips and letting them pay the waiter / waitress.

Working and getting paid by tips and NOT getting an hourly wage by the establishment.

and then there are the lucky few who get to do both. This is the ideal setting I would want.

 

[tokyoUW]

The average age of the T11 bbs community compared to that of the Cafe is considerably lower, and thus you are going to get a very one sided reply.

The majority of the T11 bbs community are purely amateurs with little to zero professional experience, especially restaurant work and thus do not fully understand why the majority of the Cafe community is against busking in restaurants.

The person who said that a large amount of people only busk in restaurants is very misinformed. To sum up the negative responses to your post at the Cafe, the professional working magic community (restaurant workers) mainly stated that your actions provide a free service to a venue in which they are trying to be hired professionally. What you do in fact undercuts the working magicians and thus, in theory, disrespects them. Even if you are not intending to disrespect the working magicians, your actions do.

As soon as a restaurant manager says to a magician going in looking for a paid gig, "I'm sorry, I know of another magician who is offering his services for free, so I don't see the point in paying you an hourly wage," then the result of your actions can clearly be seen.

You will get a lot of premature comments on this BBS, but I highly suggest you take the criticism from the Cafe post seriously. I have read the entire post there and have to say, although your points have some weight to them, overall, I would have to agree with the working professionals.

Of course it depends on the culture of the country you are working in.

 

[Mat La Vore]

...I would have to agree with the working professionals.

You say that as if all working professionals are in agreement with you.

They're not.

 

[Mr.MadMan]

The average age of the T11 bbs community compared to that of the Cafe is considerably lower, and thus you are going to get a very one sided reply......(and the whole post)

I agree with you to some extent. Yes it is bad to do that in a community of magicians. I myself have to follow that rule and we constantly keep an eye out for the amounts of money someone works for so that the prices are competitive.

But there is a slight problem in your logic. What if i am a 14 year old boy(im 16 actually) wanting to practice in a restaurant. I have a chance to either get kicked out or to work for free(busking). For me there isnt really a question, i need the practice and i wont get it any other way.
From a professional standpoint i do agree that it is pretty nasty to take on such a thing but youve got to see that some do it for the sake of practice.

I do apologize for the fact i gave, it might just be what i see and hear all the time due to my age and culture that we have around here.

But id like to clarify that although i am 16, i consider myself a semi-professional, because school eats up most of my time but i do a fair amount of gigs and am involved in pretty decent projects. So saying that young "kids" are mislead and don't know about this stuff is a little far fetched.

Peace!
M.

 

[Justin.Morris]

I'm sure because of where you are, sure it's fine. However, if you want to start making more money, you will eventually need to change that. Set your bar high.

Something Steve Cohen wrote in his book, is that after he adopted the title Millionaire's Magician, he had to start turning down paying gigs, just simply because they didn't feed the image he was going for. Now while that doesn't directly apply, it does indirectly. If you are the only working magician, and you are working just for tips, then you are setting the bar at that level. But if you set the bar higher, you will get that work. The restaurants that can't afford you won't be able to have you work there, but instead, the nicer restaurants will be able to. And magicians will be seen as more prestigious. Not that you have to work the fanciest places for the uber rich, but the point is that you get to control how you are perceived.

I set my prices at a level where I think is justified based on the performance I give. Is it higher than other guys in the city? You bet. Do I lose work to them? Well, in the last year (as a part time professional magician), I have lost three quotes. One was because the event was cancelled, one was to a guy who under bid me by $250, and the other was to another guy, but the client never told me why. So if you can justify your prices, then you will get work. And I believe that you can absolutely justify working for more than just tips.

Something to think about indeed. Thanks for your post.

 

[tokyoUW]

I agree with you to some extent. Yes it is bad to do that in a community of magicians. I myself have to follow that rule and we constantly keep an eye out for the amounts of money someone works for so that the prices are competitive.

But there is a slight problem in your logic. What if i am a 14 year old boy(im 16 actually) wanting to practice in a restaurant. I have a chance to either get kicked out or to work for free(busking). For me there isnt really a question, i need the practice and i wont get it any other way.
From a professional standpoint i do agree that it is pretty nasty to take on such a thing but youve got to see that some do it for the sake of practice.

I do apologize for the fact i gave, it might just be what i see and hear all the time due to my age and culture that we have around here.

But id like to clarify that although i am 16, i consider myself a semi-professional, because school eats up most of my time but i do a fair amount of gigs and am involved in pretty decent projects. So saying that young "kids" are mislead and don't know about this stuff is a little far fetched.

Peace!
M.

I understand how it is possible for you to think this, however, seeing as how you are 16, I am pretty sure that you do not fully understand the reality of the situation.

If you were to stop performing magic altogether, you would still have a roof over your head, food to eat, and clothes to wear.

A lot of the magicians that voiced an opposition to the OPs post earn their salaries solely from their professional magic careers. In the majority of the United States (bigger cities at least), having magicians running around offering their services for free will undoubtedly have an effect on the working professionals seeking paid employment. As a magician that depends on that paid employment, you can be certain that they will be upset.

You claim that w/o the opportunity to busk in restaurants, that you will be without a venue in which you practice. I can't even begin to start telling you how incorrect that is. You can always busk where busking started in the first place, the streets. You hone your skills for free in public venues and obtain ample criticism. Through communication with other magicians, through practice, and when you have earned a reputation that warrants paid gigs, you will certainly be able to get them. Offering to do your services for free as a busker in a restaurant is selling yourself short on a very high level. And while doing so, you are inadvertently creating hurdles for restaurant workers to have to overcome.

I may not make my living from magic, but as a professional English teacher in Japan, I have experienced a similar situation. Although I work quite comfortably at a university now, a company that I used to work for went bankrupt, and hundreds of teachers lost their jobs. The private students that I used to be able to charge $40 dollars an hour quickly decreased in numbers, as they could find less experienced and less devoted teachers offering lessons for $15 dollars an hour. As the students wanted to save money, they easily were willing to sacrifice their English education for that reduced cost.

The teachers that depended on their private students for their living expenses etc... faced a very tough time, as the other younger teachers started running around offering their service for god awful low prices.

My comment about the magicians being young on the T11 forums, although maybe hard to see, has extreme weight behind it. Once you become someone who is dependent on your own work to generate your own salary, so that you can pay rent, eat, etc... then you will fully understand the situation.

 

[Justin.Morris]

However this is assuming that the services are the same. Two magician's, just as good, offer two drastically different prices, -this can affect business.

I don't care what other new magicians are charging. They are not doing what I do, and they do not affect my business. I was there, and have moved to a different place. I never have someone tell me my prices are too high, because they know someone younger who charges $80 for their show.

There is a problem when guys charge as much as me, but are not good. This is why it is helpful to know your competition a bit.

 

[Mr.MadMan]

Okay, okay i see your point.
I agree with it and take lesson from it.

But i will adress my age situation. Yes i will have a roof, food and clothes.
Giving a bit of insight though. My mother is a teacher. In our country they get a bit over the minimum wage which isnt that much. Yes, we live through with it but i cant suspend my magic with what we life with. There is no way i would imagine of asking my mother for money to invest in cards, dvd's or books. Although some of it comes from her i work hard to get the money together.

Yes i don't depend as much on the job but i have a better life because of it. I can afford things i would have to look away from and i almost always pay my way out of things such as concerts and such.

So while i would not end up on the streets when i would stop but my quality of life would fall drastically.

And coming to the busking then i started out on the streets so i know what goes on there but while i agree that a magician could use that as a source then a mentalist would have a difficult time busking. Mainly because busking needs in your face flashy effects to get the crowd. But mentalism almost always needs a kind of predetermined surface to work on, people who are willing to devote their time.

Now while i can perform for people up to two really simply it's keeping a crowd of 20 on the streets interested in you.

Anyway, the main thing is that i agree wholeheartedly with you on the main topic now. Thanks for clearing things up and putting them into perspective.

M.

 

[Luis Vega]

I was thinking about this subject and my post in the cafe...

well, TokyoUW forgot to mention that a lot of pro`s agree with me about my approach in restaurants...

I think after checking both threads that I am not doing anything wrong...since I busk there, but as a back-story those restaurants were the first place where I got to prove myself...

I didn`t have experience at that time..so I couldn`t charge anything...I just started busking without knowing what I was actually doing...I just went there and did magic in a restaurant and it was ok...I gained experience, a few bucks (pesos here in mexico) and I got fun...

eventually I started to get invitations from others restaurants to busk there...I thought it was ok since I wasn`t tied to any restaurant and I got to prove myself in other environments...

years has passed and now I busk in around 8 restaurants in that particular area and I get good money there...

I feel busking has it`s advantages since you are a free-lance, get good money and you test yourself in different environments, and get to leave and arrive whenever you want

as usual...also has it`s disavandtages...if you get a couple bucks...that`s all you gonna get, you don`t have a job per se, and nobody is really sure of when you are going to be there...


I think that Busking is a good option for people that fits them and maybe they have ocassional gigs...I must say that busking is not easy, as is not for everyone also...you need to know how to do it well...

 

[Justin.Morris]

I think that Busking is a good option for people that fits them and maybe they have ocassional gigs...I must say that busking is not easy, as is not for everyone also...you need to know how to do it well...

Out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) have any good book recommendation on busking? (Getting the crowd/Passing the hat advice etc.?

 

[Luis Vega]

Out of curiosity, do you (or anyone else) have any good book recommendation on busking? (Getting the crowd/Passing the hat advice etc.?

well..I posted a thread ago...but about busking in the street..check Gazzo material...It`s great!! and tell`s you a lot of tips!!

 

[Justin.Morris]

I saw Gazzo lecture and he is definitely 'good' at what he does. At times it was hard to enjoy when he was as crass and rude to others as he was. He reminds me of someone who was teased as a kid and built his career around taking it out on others.

Anything else?