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Daniel Garcia: His view on his latest E release.

Dec 20, 2007
134
0
Joplin, Mo., USA
Im not completley convinced that DG is airing out his laundry in a demeaning approach here. One user here said he's was a journalist then he should know the importance to outside sources recieving tid bits of info on wrong doers only help expose the problems instead of himbering them into a closet of colaborated lies so the next guy can get mud on his face. As far as the superiority response Steerpike that was uncalled for and only shows your true ambitions here and thats sad brother. Is it right for DG to allow the public to know the truth about something HE created and have the want to provide top notch magic to his loyal fans I dont think so so to DG thank you.

That would be me. I'm the journalist. If you review my posts, the point I was making is clear. I mentioned my job as a context to similar events I've seen.

As I said in those posts, I am a fanboy of E and Garcia. I hate that this situation has happened, and that it is resolving itself across message boards. But I trust both E and Garcia to do what is best for them, their business and the art of magic.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Does this not tell you something? If this is becoming such a regular thing then there must be SOME truth to it.

Using that logic, a quick perusal of the hate mail I've recieved over the last six months would suggest that I am a gay, impotent scam artist with at least four different varieties of cancer and/or venereal diseases and I'm the reincarnation of Joseph Stalin who enjoys orgies of blood after sessions of drowning kittens.

So yes, it does tell me something. Mostly why I hate so much.

As far as the superiority response Steerpike that was uncalled for and only shows your true ambitions here and thats sad brother.

Joke. Noun. Thing said or done intended to cause laughter. Often whimsical or not in earnest.

I sometimes wonder why I bother opening my mouth at all since I have to laboriously explain sentence that isn't bereft of irony, sarcasm, subtext, or ambiguity.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Steerpike, perhaps it is to have a handy place to put your foot?

I'm actually rather impressed with that response. I was expecting you to use a... different body part in that sentence. It's nice to finally see someone who hates me with a modicum of eloquence. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.
 

rousselle

Elite Member
Aug 2, 2008
26
0
www.rousselle.com
But, cereally...

First: Steerpike, I'm not a hater. I love your posts. Your straight line was simply too good to resist.

But, back to the topic at hand:

I am, among many other things, a business man. I am also a writer, who has sold both news stories to the AP and fiction to a few pro market anthologies, etc., etc. On any given day, I can find myself on either side of the performer/intellectual-property-generator versus business-owner/publisher fence.

In reading the clipping of the post attributed to DG (and which I will, for the sake of argument, accept as being genuinely his, until I see evidence to the contrary), I immediately recognize both his position and that of E's as being entirely reasonable. DG prepared a product a couple of years ago that he is no longer comfortable with (as has happened to me several times), and his publisher, with whom he may already have some other disagreements (if I read the other posts her correctly), has no doubt had to deal with business concerns of their own that either delayed production, resulted in mistakes slipping through quality control, or both.

I was unaware that so many artists (as mentioned in a previous post to this thread) have been leaving the E train, and I am certainly curious as to why, but the point is not relevant to this discussion. I will, however, draw upon another alleged ex-Ellusionista to illustrate my point.

Wayne Houchin (sp?), who has also been mentioned as someone who has likewise left the E-fold, also straddles the line between performer and producer. I have enjoyed the two releases of his that I've purchased so far (Ultragaff, also with DG, and Indecent, both of which are distributed by E). As a former radio guy (yes, I've done many, many things in my long and varied career), I am always paying attention to the audio quality of what I'm listening to, and I have to say that the audio mixing on both of those products is, well, less than excellent.

I'll bet WH knows it, and is painfully aware of it. As a performer, he must be concerned about it. But as a producer, he had deadlines to meet, and a budget to watch. This is the nature of the beast. You can't re-shoot or re-loop every clip from your video project, no matter how much you might like to, in order to get every image or sound perfect in time for release. That's the way it goes. Known mistakes make it into the final edit of every video/print project. And, for all the quality control you may try to exert, unknown mistakes slip through, as well.

On a good day, any performer or producer, when an earlier project is mentioned, will recall with pride the things that went well with that release. On a bad day, that person is as likely to dwell upon the flaws. I'm sure the producers at E can point to any of their products and list any number of regrets about that release, as well as any number of matters of pride.

Forgetting to rename a trick on your DVD? An easy detail to miss, even if later on you think you made a bigger deal about it at the time. Or -- and I think this is very likely -- they (the folks at E) may have even decided to rename the trick on the DVD, and then noticed that someone else has already released a trick with the proposed new name, so they stuck with the previous name. That's how it goes.

In my long and weird career, I've been quoted out of context, had my name misspelled, and had important chunks of my writing/performance butchered... even by people with whom I had an excellent working relationship. There was a major article I'd written for one magazine where they actually dropped my byline from the article. The editors claimed that the byline "fell off the flats" (this was back in the days when magazines were literally pasted up, not computer generated). On good days, I chose to believe that story. On bad days, I chose to think someone pulled that byline off on purpose, just 'cause. (Like DG and E, I had already left the magazine by the time my article was published.) It's been years since it happened, and now I only think about it when I write responses to Theory11 threads.

I am personally familiar with neither DG nor E (although I'd love a chance to meet either or both; DG seems like a real cool cat on Ultragaff, and the folks at E run an interesting business*). That said, it is entirely plausible that DG's issues with E regarding this release are completely, 100% reasonable... and that E's position on the release is also entirely reasonable. When it comes to shipping product, it is an undeniable fact that delays happen and mistakes slip through. Every product, every release.

That said, if I should ever spend enough time with my magic to actually come up with a cool effect that I'd like to share with (read, "sell to") the world, it helps to know the reputation that is being earned by the publishers out there. In this regard, DG's post is certainly an interesting data point.

--Allan

* I'd also very much like to meet WH and the folks at Theory11. Insofar as I live in the great Northwest, I'm hoping that I'll eventually get to at least see Lee Asher in action, or attend one of his lectures.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
First: Steerpike, I'm not a hater. I love your posts. Your straight line was simply too good to resist.

That's even better.

I was unaware that so many artists (as mentioned in a previous post to this thread) have been leaving the E train, and I am certainly curious as to why

I can try to shed a little light on the issue.

Wayne left to form Theory 11 as he and J. Bayme wanted to pursue a creative agenda a little different from E's. There's no animus between the two parties, and Wayne has stopped for a couple of visits to the E forums since T-11 launched.

Dan and Dave split with Ellusionist over an alleged breach of contract, although neither party seems to be in any hurry to speak further on the subject. Most people have simply let the incident slide into the realm of "non-issue".

Justin Miller is now in semi-retirement.

Nathan Kranzo allegedly had an argument with Ellusionist over a crediting issue in the Loops trilogy, although that's apparently been smoothed out as he drops by now and again and is allowed to plug his website on the forums.

That's about all I can tell you right now.

You can't re-shoot or re-loop every clip from your video project, know matter how much you might like to, in order to get every image or sound perfect in time for release. That's the way it goes. Known mistakes make it into the final edit of every video/print project. And, for all the quality control you may try to exert, unknown mistakes slip through, as well.

I wish you could hear the sympathetic groan I let out upon reading that. I remember my first student movie when the boom mic made a couple cameos that we missed during editing... Bruce Campbell's chin, that drove me up the wall.

I think you've brought a refreshing perspective to this whole runaround.
 
Dec 20, 2007
134
0
Joplin, Mo., USA
Rouselle: Well written.

What bothered me was how so many on another forum were quick to pile on Ellusionist. That happened to an extent here, but not nearly as bad. The general attitude here has been one of sympathy to Daniel Garcia; the attitude at (oh, what the heck. I'll name it) the Magic Cafe has been one of venom toward E. Two different things, and I give a general thumbs-up to the T11 types who resisted E bashing without hearing both sides.

Now that we know both sides, we see these are differences between E and DG, and it's up to them to resolve the issue. The important thing to note from the information that Steerpike listed about the former E artists is not how E messed up, but how E bent over backwards to resolve the situation.

Your story summarizes brilliantly how similar types of differences happen in other creative fields. People just starting out in magic would be well served by reading your description of how the real world works.
 
That would be me. I'm the journalist. If you review my posts, the point I was making is clear. I mentioned my job as a context to similar events I've seen.

As I said in those posts, I am a fanboy of E and Garcia. I hate that this situation has happened, and that it is resolving itself across message boards. But I trust both E and Garcia to do what is best for them, their business and the art of magic.

This makes two of us.

Shane
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,241
1
Honestly I don't know if this has been posted yet because I don't want to read 8 pages of arguing, but here is Brad Christians response.


Originally Posted by Brad Christian
.




I posted this in the Cafe where the original thread started and I'll copy it over here for you. Brad.



----------------------------------------------



Alrighty then.


Danny was not the one to contact me two years ago about the name Slink, it was actually Ben Harris directly. Ben confirmed this in a conversation we had with him yesterday and actually brought it up himself in the call. I had said back then that I would change the name and I certainly meant it. But the products sat on the shelf for quite some time (about two years) and in the meantime it slipped my memory. When the mistake was brought to my attention a couple of days ago it caused me quite a bit of distress. We called Ben and talked with him at length about it. To quote him in a reaffirming email after the call: "Again, no problems with the "Slink" bit. These things happen. Water under the bridge, we move on. And by the way, would you guys like to do our new enlightenment deck in Viper? Viper would look amazing". And that was that.

The other thing I'll correct is regarding the trick TOUCH. Danny came to the Ellusionist studio and we looked at several things of his during the time he was here. Together, and I’ll reemphasize together, we decided on Slink Bent and Touch as being some marketable items that would be excellent to bring to the magic community in Ellusionist style. There was a positive agreement on each side. During filming, the trick was performed and taught at length by Daniel. It was filmed by Dana Hocking (now of Theory11) and Wayne Houchin directed it I believe, as he did Slink. You’ll hear Danny talk about Touch in quite a different way during the teaching of the DVD if you order it… it will be interesting to contrast his sentiment here against his enthusiasm for it on video at that time.

I can understand Danny if you want people to know you don’t perform it all the time. But to us it’s classic Garcia in the sense that it is genius thinking and came from that amazing underground brain of yours. It’s very simple and beautiful coin magic and I think you guys will see that in the trailer when it comes out --- and of course it is absolutely astounding.





And now Dannys response to that.



it is AMAZING that the only way you seen to be able to talk to me is through a forum... one would think that being a professional you would actually want to keep a good relation with your artists and pick up the phone, as opposed to "not being allowed" to talk to me, due to legal issues.

with that being said... you are correct. You did contact me, and so did Ben Harris... I told Ben that I would have this taken care of, and was in contact with you. so please don't try and make this sound like I am trying to bend the truth. Thank you for admitting that you "forgot" to change the name though.

as far as TOUCH... I appreciate the compliments that you have given me, but the truth has to be said. Bent and CrossLink were brought to you and TOUCH was created in studio. I remember even being uneased about the whole issue while I was there. You did a good job of throwing numbers at me and persuading me into filming that effect, and for that I APOLOGIZE to the community at large.

Of course I talk differently about TOUCH on dvd, I was filming it FOR YOUR COMPANY and you were VERY PERSUASIVE. Why in the world would I go on not say anything but good?

That is WHY I AM APOLOGIZING to the magic community, for making one of the biggest mistakes I have made by allowing myself to be manipulated by numbers 2 years ago. I have learned my lesson by trusting your company and seeing what has happened along this long and bumpy road... I have lost friends and made enemies because of your "mistakes" and I will not let it happen anymore.

I am not going to get into an argument, I have let the community know EXACTLY what happened and have apologized on my behalf, that is all I can do. As soon as the "legal issue" gets settled that is going on now, I will let them know EXACTLY what happened with that as well, they deserve the right to know...

but that is a different topic and will be discussed when the time is appropriate

Once again I thank you for coming on and acknowledging your mistakes,

Daniel Garcia
 

The Dark Angel

forum moderator / t11
Sep 1, 2007
2,003
18
33
Denver, Colorado
Perhaps I am the only who sees this whole spectacle as nothing more than petty gossiping. I don't get why two highly-respectable persons such as DG and BC would make this private matter a public one.

Oh well,
TDA
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I don't get why two highly-respectable persons such as DG and BC would make this private matter a public one.

Well, Danny Garcia makes a public statement about his being pissed off. Brad Christian responds in kind with a public apology and addressing the issues Danny brought up. Danny complains about talking about things in public... in public.

I'm not going to think about this any further than that because my blood-alcohol isn't high enough to deal with it.
 
D

Deleted member 2755

Guest
As TDA said... this is an issue that should be private and is public... Danny I felt was a bit of a hypocrit saying that this issue should not be discussed on a forum because that post did the exact same thing... just my view. Then again, I can understand though that when you are personally attacked, you may want to respond publically to protect yourself. If you make an issue private, then the other person wins in the public's eye despite whatever happens in private. I can't really blame him. However, I see a bit of hypocricy there.

I can't believe what is going on at the Cafe. I find it ridiculous. I'm a little mad at Brad and a little mad at Garcia. However, Danny does have a good reason to be angry.

-Doug
 
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