Magic to Mentalism

[Toby]

Ok, here is the thing...
I was just reading "13 steps to mentalism" by Corinda, and in it, there is a interview with Fogel.
I will write just two questions (and answers) from that interview, because i am finding myself in the same situation, and i would love to hear your opinions.

So here it goes:

Corinda: "Do you think it is a good thing to mix magic and mentalism during the course of a performance. I think we had better say during the course of a Mental Act?"
Fogel: "No--I don't think it is a good thing because in presenting Magic, naturally the people, even though you are presenting an apparent miracle--know that you are doing tickery. So therefore, if you mixed magic and come to a Mental Effect the shine has been taken of by yourself because the conclusion with a great many of the people would be "well, it is just another form of tickery.""

Corinda: "But I think I would be right in saying that a magician can of course put in a couple of mental effects to add to his performance. Would you agree to that?"
Fogel: "Yes--definitely, because that is exactly the way that I started. That was until i realized that Mentalism was far stronger, or had stronger appeal than my magic--which was probably not good at all-- so therefore I went in and specialized in Mentalism."


So, I'm kinda in the same situation, transferring from magic into mentalism, so what are your thoughts about Corindas question, and this transformation from one type of magic into another?
And also, can mentalist incorporate magic tricks into his act, and can a magician incorporate mentalism into his?

 

[Deechristopher]

I think more often than not it just depends of the persona that the performer takes on, the character you play and the premise you work from.

If you haven't read already, check out Mitox by Phil Smith as it has some interesting ideas.

It's much easier for a magician to do mental tricks than for a mentalist to branch to magic. I don't think I no anyone who just did sheer mentalism and then moved into magic tbh, it always seems to happen the other way around :S

I do perform an awful lot of mentalism, though I do perform some magic too, I feel that mentalism can be much stronger, but I've found that the right magic trick can really lighten the mood or be a perfect starting point for a routine - I'm opening all my walk about sets with LIT currently, it's very strong, but to me it seems like more of a 'piece of strange'

I find that opening with a magic trick with a solid, visually amazing climax can be a very good way to evaluate your audience to see if they're right for certain effects, or how you might change the presentation slightly to suit.

D.

 

[Chr!s]

I'd say that while a mentalist can certainly succesfully utilise magic techniques to achieve the effect of a mental miracle, the thought of somebody doing hippity hop rabbits, and then trying to perform a book test hurts my brain.

I perform magic, and I perform mentalism, but very VERY rarely at the same time, unless I'm strolling. Then I think it's acceptable, but only if each group gets only ONE of the two options. I still wouldn't blend the two for any one particular group of spectators.

I do think that certain 'magic' effects can enhance mental presentations however. Freezing water with 'the mind' can be very effective, or bending metal with sheer thought alone, and so on and so forth...

CL

 

[William Draven]

I think Corinda's opinion is a bit dated. That book was written in the 60's and both Magic and Mentalism have evolved a lot since then.

Also Fogel's opinion was typical of that time period and only serves to lengthen the devide between the working magician and mentalist. Such an eletist attitude isn't needed and we would do better as a fraternaty of performers to lose it completely. A mentalist can't do their craft with out a method much the same as a magician. In essence we're both "fakes", we are just two sides of the same coin.

I think both the magician and the mentalist can successfully use each others crafts in their act interchangibly and not suffer for it. However it must be stated, as I have in so many other threads, The material in your act MUST be themed to work together. If you do a kids show for a bunch of 5 year olds, then a book test may be the wrong closer to chose.

If you want to switch from one venue to another, or provide two seperate types of shows for clients to book you on, then awesome!

Pick your effects wisely, and I think you've got something to work with.

 

[blahblah]

well I think they work great together, it just needs to be "clean" mentalism (like pk sounds), I think if your doing something billets it does make it more "tricky", but it can really add to the atmosphere.

 

[nexusmagic]

After reading some of pure effects by derren brown, it can be a good thing to mix magic principles with mentalism. If you go to mentalism do not perform magic as a magic trick you will loose power as a mentalist. just my opinion