Not Another Criss Angel Thread?!
- Thread starter William Draven
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mmm...I totally agree...
I don`t want to say anything about criss angel to not start a debate again..
I don`t want to say anything about criss angel to not start a debate again..
LOL@ the title of your thread.
I'm probably going to lose most people with this story because you won't be interested, but I'm going to tell it anyway.
Awhile ago I had a boss who was the most unethical person you've ever met. She was an amazing liar, seemingly very sincere and was a great manipulator. Not a single person liked working for her. But she came in as a Director in our company and all the executives liked her. And no...she wasn't the least bit attractive...overweight, looked like a clown. So that added to the mystery and the "I just don't get how she got to where she is" head scratcher.
She was incompetent and couldn't execute on tasks, so we couldn't even say, "well at least she's good at her job".
So long story short, she eventually got let go after some ugly illegal billings. Now, there aren't many people I've ever met in my life that I can say I really despised...but I despised her because she was so cruel to everyone.
But a long time ago I learned that everyone, regardless if they're enemies or friends, can teach you something. So instead of picking apart all the things that were wrong with her (and there were MANY), I took an honest look at WHY she made it as high as she did. Lying and ass kissing can only get you so far...but there was more than that.
She had a great ability to make others feel that she cared. She would show geniune (or not, doesn't matter) interest in their hobbies, families, kids, etc. She made them like her, regardless of how incompetent she was. If anyone has ever read the classic book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People", she lived and breathed that book. So what I learned was that you can truly connect with people, without the manipulation factor, and that makes people want to align with you in a positive way. I saw her do it right before my eyes and I let my dislike for her blind me to that very important skill in the business world till I took the time to reflect back.
So my point is, if you find yourself (like the author in this article) wondering why someone made it or won an award and you want to make sweeping dismissals....don't. You're doing yourself a disservice because you're missing out on learning some very powerful lessons.
I'm probably going to lose most people with this story because you won't be interested, but I'm going to tell it anyway.
Awhile ago I had a boss who was the most unethical person you've ever met. She was an amazing liar, seemingly very sincere and was a great manipulator. Not a single person liked working for her. But she came in as a Director in our company and all the executives liked her. And no...she wasn't the least bit attractive...overweight, looked like a clown. So that added to the mystery and the "I just don't get how she got to where she is" head scratcher.
She was incompetent and couldn't execute on tasks, so we couldn't even say, "well at least she's good at her job".
So long story short, she eventually got let go after some ugly illegal billings. Now, there aren't many people I've ever met in my life that I can say I really despised...but I despised her because she was so cruel to everyone.
But a long time ago I learned that everyone, regardless if they're enemies or friends, can teach you something. So instead of picking apart all the things that were wrong with her (and there were MANY), I took an honest look at WHY she made it as high as she did. Lying and ass kissing can only get you so far...but there was more than that.
She had a great ability to make others feel that she cared. She would show geniune (or not, doesn't matter) interest in their hobbies, families, kids, etc. She made them like her, regardless of how incompetent she was. If anyone has ever read the classic book, "How to Win Friends and Influence People", she lived and breathed that book. So what I learned was that you can truly connect with people, without the manipulation factor, and that makes people want to align with you in a positive way. I saw her do it right before my eyes and I let my dislike for her blind me to that very important skill in the business world till I took the time to reflect back.
So my point is, if you find yourself (like the author in this article) wondering why someone made it or won an award and you want to make sweeping dismissals....don't. You're doing yourself a disservice because you're missing out on learning some very powerful lessons.
In trying to find out what it was about her that made her successful, you have implicitly criticized her, passed judgment about which of her traits is good and which ones are bad and decided that the good traits are worth emulating. This is obviously different from blindly adoring someone to the extent that you don't even acknowledge their faults.
Don't try to stifle someone who does aloud what you did silently.
Believe me, I didn't do it silently. I was one of the few people instrumental in making sure her misdeeds didn't go unpunished.
But my point is, just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can't acknowledge their positives and learn from it. I made the same mistakes a lot of people are doing when Angel wins this award (again)...they make these general sweeping statements like, "David Blaine must have been washing his hair" instead of recognizing that Angel won this again for specific reasons that are relevent...whether WE think so or not.
You can complain all you want that Angel won this award again...but that further drives what I'm talking about in my other thread....there just isn't enough competition to even compete with him when this award is up. Is like he wins it by default and we have to ask ourselves why that is?
Why didn't Derren Brown win it? Or Lance Burton? We all think they're better "magicians"...but does the public think so? Does the name "Derren Brown" or "Lance Burton" live in the public consciousness? No...they don't...so why?
so...how much is Criss angel paying you to come here and trying to convince us that he is a great magician?
B,
Please tell us exactly what award criss won, who gave it, the criterion for selection, what group it represents, and a little background on the award.
Oh, and can you please share any information you have comparing the popularity of angel in england to derren brown in england. I am curious who is more in the public consciousness of the eurpean nations. What do you know about that?
Thanks
Since b doesn't know, or won't tell us, do a little digging on the award, its past winners, and the 'society'.
Heck, they even gave criss an award for the best magic kit months before the set was even released!
There is a thread on the 'society' on the genii forum.
Still waiting for b to share what he knows.
Heck, they even gave criss an award for the best magic kit months before the set was even released!
There is a thread on the 'society' on the genii forum.
Still waiting for b to share what he knows.
Well for one Angel has won Magician of the Year from the International Magicians Society in 2001, 2004, 2005, and 2007.
David Copperfield, Lance Burton, and Siegfried and Roy have won it as well. That's not bad company.
If you're going to start to slam IMS and talk about how it's not a real award or whatever lame excuse that is sure to form in your bitter mind, Brad...save your fingers....it's become quite apparently pathetic.
Steerpike said something in another thread that applies to you and those like you that keep Magic in the cellars:
BTW: I'm still waiting on those links on critiques about your summer shows since so many people see it. 3rd request.
David Copperfield, Lance Burton, and Siegfried and Roy have won it as well. That's not bad company.
If you're going to start to slam IMS and talk about how it's not a real award or whatever lame excuse that is sure to form in your bitter mind, Brad...save your fingers....it's become quite apparently pathetic.
Steerpike said something in another thread that applies to you and those like you that keep Magic in the cellars:
BTW: I'm still waiting on those links on critiques about your summer shows since so many people see it. 3rd request.
Sorry b.
Had them in my post I couldn't submit because someone cried to john and got the thread closed. Since it was only you and I really writing, and I didn't do it ---
So, tell me about the ims award. Who runs it, who picks it and how?
Tell me what the credentials are?
Waiting ...
Still waiting.
Hey - who won the award its first year?
Waiting.
Still waiting.
(Ask john to reopen the other thread and I will post my reply - though you will have to answer some questions about criss - not me. I know you're scared of that. Its ok. Its normal for someone who can't back up their position with facts or logic to feel that way.)
So when did 40 year old men wearing leather pants become fashion forward? I know Bill Malone. Its nice to be flown around the world making quite a bit of dough, show after show, performing for successful adults. He doesn't even need to pay for a bunch of kids to edit out his mistakes and cut together his tricks.
I think criss must be jealous of bill because he can't do that. What do you think?
I think you're jealous of bill and all the other magician who actually can do shows without camera tricks.
What's with you kids hating on people who can do magic for real people without camera tricks?
Besides, have you made a living doing magic for real people? Let me see your list of clients? What do you know about what it takes to make a living as a magician? I don't see you working high end corporate parties and trade shows?
when you say things like these guys are out of touch its just because you are jealous they can make a living with their approach and you can't.
Hater.
If your approach to magic and tastes were on the money, I would see you at these shows. What shows are you doing?
(See, I can play troll, too!
Get them to reopen the thread.
But be prepared to talk about criss, not me
What are you afraid of?)
P.s. Last time you were performing in england, who did you find was more in the public awareness - angel or brown? Just curious what you had to back up your previous claim.
Waiting
Still waiting
Had them in my post I couldn't submit because someone cried to john and got the thread closed. Since it was only you and I really writing, and I didn't do it ---
So, tell me about the ims award. Who runs it, who picks it and how?
Tell me what the credentials are?
Waiting ...
Still waiting.
Hey - who won the award its first year?
Waiting.
Still waiting.
(Ask john to reopen the other thread and I will post my reply - though you will have to answer some questions about criss - not me. I know you're scared of that. Its ok. Its normal for someone who can't back up their position with facts or logic to feel that way.)
So when did 40 year old men wearing leather pants become fashion forward? I know Bill Malone. Its nice to be flown around the world making quite a bit of dough, show after show, performing for successful adults. He doesn't even need to pay for a bunch of kids to edit out his mistakes and cut together his tricks.
I think criss must be jealous of bill because he can't do that. What do you think?
I think you're jealous of bill and all the other magician who actually can do shows without camera tricks.
What's with you kids hating on people who can do magic for real people without camera tricks?
Besides, have you made a living doing magic for real people? Let me see your list of clients? What do you know about what it takes to make a living as a magician? I don't see you working high end corporate parties and trade shows?
when you say things like these guys are out of touch its just because you are jealous they can make a living with their approach and you can't.
Hater.
If your approach to magic and tastes were on the money, I would see you at these shows. What shows are you doing?
(See, I can play troll, too!
Get them to reopen the thread.
But be prepared to talk about criss, not me
What are you afraid of?)
P.s. Last time you were performing in england, who did you find was more in the public awareness - angel or brown? Just curious what you had to back up your previous claim.
Waiting
Still waiting
Last edited by a moderator:
Brad...ease up a bit. I know you are just voicing your opinion but let's all tone it down a bit or this thread will most likely have to be closed as well.
Thanks for your understanding.
Thanks for your understanding.
Reverhart,
The post above was in reference to the closed thread. If it sounded harsh, know that I was merely presenting the exact same arguments offered toward me by 'b' in the other thread.
I, For one, would be thrilled to see people no longer allowed to use the 'if you haven't done something, you can't criticize it' line of thinking and the 'jealousy' accusation. It only leads to the argument presented first by b and now by me above.
Having said that, I think someone should know what they are talking about when they offer statements of fact.
Who is the ims, what are its methods for choosing award winners, and what official organization/authority does it have?
I mean, its not like its some organization whose president founded it so he could award himself the very first magician of the year award. That would make the 'honor' a joke, yes?
So, what authority is there in the ims or its award?
And, I am still curious how the claim the angel is more in the public consciousness than brown is true. I mean, it was a stated fact, right?
This thread is about trick, let's talk about criss. B, you can do that, right?
Steer,
As always, you don't know what the f--- you're talking about.
The post above was in reference to the closed thread. If it sounded harsh, know that I was merely presenting the exact same arguments offered toward me by 'b' in the other thread.
I, For one, would be thrilled to see people no longer allowed to use the 'if you haven't done something, you can't criticize it' line of thinking and the 'jealousy' accusation. It only leads to the argument presented first by b and now by me above.
Having said that, I think someone should know what they are talking about when they offer statements of fact.
Who is the ims, what are its methods for choosing award winners, and what official organization/authority does it have?
I mean, its not like its some organization whose president founded it so he could award himself the very first magician of the year award. That would make the 'honor' a joke, yes?
So, what authority is there in the ims or its award?
And, I am still curious how the claim the angel is more in the public consciousness than brown is true. I mean, it was a stated fact, right?
This thread is about trick, let's talk about criss. B, you can do that, right?
Steer,
As always, you don't know what the f--- you're talking about.
Steerpike,
You were the only one missing from this party
.
Are you here to support one of these guys or take the piss out of everyone?
You were the only one missing from this party
.Are you here to support one of these guys or take the piss out of everyone?
Hey now, I make a living performing magic and do not perform at trade shows or corporate parties...lol
Oh and I believe the AMA gave the award for Magician of the year to Criss in 2005?? I may be wrong on that.
Mike
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