Stage Magic... My Thoughts About Why It's Not That Impressive...

So wait, because your dad didn't really like stage magic.. You decide that all stage magic sucks?

Man you have not seen a David Copperfield show or a Lance Burton Show or even a Penn and Teller show.

I have a lot of respect for stage guys because it takes a lot more and i mean A LOT more guts to get up on stage and perform for an audience of 50-maybe 500 or more people. Street magic is fine and all but you are basically just performing for 2-5 people at the most. And then with the stage magic. There is the maintenance and prep work that goes into maintaining all of the effects. Which are things that you CANNOT do with street magic. Not to mention the rehearsal as well. Yes, a lot of stage guy's often will do dress rehearsal and rehearse and have to practice on the stage as well. I have also heard stories were their sets have gone wrong and they either have to continue the show or learn how to be a really good stage manager. There is so much that goes into Stage magic that you wouldn't believe.

Like I said, Street magic or whatever is OK. But at the end of the day, it's normally not what brings in the money. You make more money for doing stage shows then you do for Close up stuff.

You obviously only read the first post and nothing else, so let me clarify things for you. I do NOT hate stage magic, I just feel it is slightly less magical.

I have seen Copperfield.

Also, I have performed for an auditorium of 750 people, so I understand where you are coming from. I just think that each branch of magic has its pown pros and cons.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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He's saying that your views on Stage magic are simplistic and ignorant to the point of being funny. I'm pretty sure.

I am not sure how he got that... I said all types of genres of magic have pros and cons, and I went through them. I said stage magic is good because you can amaze a lot of people at once with these wondrous illusions. But the downfall is you obviously think there is a secret to the box that the girl is in.
 
im going to go ahead and put this out there: WHO CARES? Seriously, card or coin magic, boxes, illusions. We are magicians. We are biased in what we like. To some magicians, illusions are more magicial. To others, a deck color change is more magical. But to the laymen, its almost always percieved as the same. We shouldnt be the ones arguing (debating for those that cant handle the word argue) about which ones are better. If anyone argue, it should be the laymen. They are the ones that watch what we are debating about. We can say all we want about either side, but in the end, the layman decides.
Absolutely. Magicians always argue about this type of thing but really, it does not matter AT ALL. Spectators just see us as magicians. In their mind we are the same.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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But then you went on and bashed restuarant magic. and then gave like thirty bogus reasons why street magic is "better" than both stage and resturant magic. Sorry, next!

Hey, it's an opinion. I also gave pros to restaurant magic as well. I just call it as I see it. Apparently we have different opinions, but you don't have to act like a 3 year old who doesn't get his way 24/7. The world does not have to agree with you non-stop. Dylan wrote this as an opinion and it's people like you that turn these things into arguments with a d**k attitude. Learn that people ARE going to have different opinions than you.
 
You havent seen me act three. Your opinion is based on flawed and biased facts that you created. Why would I respect that? Its not about my way, read my post on page two. If your going to give a detailed opinion, please know what you are talking about before hand. I would respect your "opinion" IF it wasnt based on what you dont know for yourself. I respect opinions all the time that i dont agree all the time, and I bet you can guess why. Because they know what they are talking about.
 
Sep 15, 2007
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You havent seen me act three. Your opinion is based on flawed and biased facts that you created. Why would I respect that? Its not about my way, read my post at the top of the screen. If your going to give a detailed opinion, please know what you are talking about before hand.

I have plenty of people who would disagree with you on calling my facts biased and flawed. I have done both (Stage and street). So they are not biased one bit. My opinions come from experience. I suggest you learn to accept that people have other opinions because people aren't as nice as I am. I haven't seen a bit of experience form you except to instigate an argument, and knock it off! I know for a fact it isn't the same with every spectator. Some people like grand illusion, some people like to see the ring vanish and appear in their back pocket. Again, it is a difference of opinions.
 
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Alright, Now that I'm back from Las Vegas and infront of a computer as opposed to my cell phone I think I can devote a little more intelligent thought to a reply instead of quipping out a sarcastic two liner aimed at being ironicly funny as opposed to being constructivly useful.


I'll take this line by line the best I can. Warning: As a note in afterthought I just realized that this reply is too big for a single post. I'm going to double post this. Please read with careful consideration.

...It really got me thinking about Stage Magic vs. Street Magic. It is just such a controversial subject."

Not really. I don't know of any controversy at all between these two genre's. To the best of my knowledge no pre-existing grudge exists between the two. Certainly nothing close to the differences of opinions you would find in a magic vs mentalism conversation.

"...I can't get into that big stage stuff. I like the more up close, done at random stuff. You know? Like that David somethin' guy or that guy who wears all the Affliction shirts. Street entertainers, that's what I like. You know? It just makes it seem more magical."

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

When you get down to the guts of it, Stage stuff seems to be more showy and not too magical. but this, off-the-cuff magic, seems astonishing.

I think you are trying to compare apples to oranges here. Your "street" magic and the grand illusions of stage magic are two very separate genres of magic. They operate very different from each other in presentation and psychology. I think you are confusing a personal preference for an overall opinion on the genre in it's entirety. The dangerous part of that is that you are attempting to sway someones preference away from one specific genre in favor of your preferred style. This is dangerous because you could be denying someone a great experience and memory solely because you don't approve of a specific style. I really think that it should be left to the individual to decide for them self what they like and don't like.

Also your opinion could be jaded because you are a magician yourself. What you personally find amazing could be light years from what a layman would find amazing.

Example in point: I myself am a close up performer. I've been doing closeup magic longer than I've been doing my current freak act. I'm well adept at card magic, and my co-workers sometimes get sick of being used as Guinna pigs to my close up routines, new material, and older material that is getting a face lift. A co-woker and close friend of mine went to Las Vegas with me this past weekend. (Actually it was I that went with him, but minor detail.) My friend has seen a lot of close up magic, to which he does enjoy, however for his birthday I got him tickets to see Lance Burton perform. He was absolutely blown away by the magic, where as I wasn't that thrilled at the effects but I marveled at the entertainment, and showmanship. I would certainly say that my opinion of Lance's show was definitely affected by my own experience and years as a magician.

So here it is... I've already bored you so I'll make it quick... Well, think about it. There is no dubt about it. Pen & Tell, Burton, Seifried & Roy, and Copperfield are all very talented magicians, who have gotten very famous, and are extrordinary illusionists.

This sounds like you're trying to cover your rear because you're about to lay into them. I'll bet the next word in your sentence is "but".


Didn't see that coming...

could it be that the only people go to see them is because they like magic, and are more famous, than say I guy who works outside a hotel for tips. Of course!!!

Hang on, I think I either need an aspirin or a shot of rum before I can fully wrap my head around this statement. If I read this right, and understand what it is you mean to imply then what you are saying is that people only go to see Lance, David, Penn & Teller because they either like magic already or because these magicians are famous? Correct?

I strongly disagree. While fame certainly does help in marketing an act, and it can also add a level of prestige to a venue it doesn't mean that it is the only reason why people are in the audience. As I've probably already stated I just got back from Las Vegas, and there were plenty of people in Lances show that never seen a magic show live before. I think that people go to see them because they want good entertainment and to be that big of a name you'd expect that from their acts. Some random hack standing on a street corner flipping Three Card Monte's for a quick buck isn't going to compare to the quality of show, entertainment, (and possibly) skill of the larger name magicians you've listed here.

Now, when you go to a large theater type place, you are going into it knowing that everything has been rehearsed, and choreographed, etc. You know that everything is in fact a trick and it has been all set up months or even years before hand. Now, when you know this, sure you still have fun and are amazed at the show. But you are asking yourself: "Wow! I wonder how he did that?" But what the ultimate goal is is to have the spectators go: "That couldn't of happened. Did I just see a miracle?"

Quit looking at the glass from the magicians point of view. It doesn't matter if the glass is an illusion. The spectator is the one that see's it half empty or half full. Our point of view doesn't matter. Again, we're jaded because we know how the magic is done. For us, the review shouldn't focus on the type of magic performed but on the level of showmanship used, and the overall quality of the show and it's entertainment value.

To a layman watching David fly over your heads is JUST as amazing as watching you do some knuckle busting, hot off the line, Buck twin inspired colour change. The choreography, rehearsals, methods, and etc hardly even come into the forethought's of your average layman. If it does, then it is doing nothing more than passing through.

(To Be Continued)
 
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(Continued From Above)

However, what if you are walking down the street and a man walks up to you and says, "I want to show you something."

I would turn, call for a police officer, and run away as fast as I can.

...he grabs a crushed soda can off of the side of the road. He then shakes it until it restores to the shape of a simple can. He then shows the top to be open, and then seals it. To make it better he opens it and pulls out a full can of soda. (Being Magicians, we wouldn't be amazed.) But if you were a layman, you might go: "What the hell. He just did a miracle. That could've been any soda can."

I left the entire paragraph alone, but chose to bold and highlight the important part of your quote that will be the point of my next line of thought.

You have stumbled upon my entire defense of stage magic right there and didn't even realize it. Quit substituting your own personal biased opinion for a specific genre of magic for a blanket excuse to say that one magic style is better than another. You have yet to provide me any decent reasons why your view points are valid. So far everything you suggest could be said for stage, or for that mater any other style of magic. You're not looking at this objectively. So far this thread is nothing more than a "Who is a better magician: Criss Angel or David Blaine?" thread. It's just being worded differently.


In reality it couldn't be any soda can, but to them it just blends into the suroundings and makes them think that you simply did something that was plain out of the ordinary. As far as they are concerned you were NOT set up, even though you realy were,

Spoken like a magician, but not thought through like a spectator.

but when you go and see a Stage Show you know that everything is set up.

And the average spectator doesn't care.

But all the magic that's off the cuff is great, because it takes people off gaurd, and makes them break away from reality for a second or two.

It's also unrehearsed, unscripted, and weaker because it's not thought through. Hence being the definition of "off the cuff". Any magic routine that is scripted, thought through, and well planned will impact better. This is true of stage as well as of "street". Come on students of Ortiz and Weber, this is Magic Theory 101 here.

I believe that in a Stage show, that doesn't happen. You might not expect what happens, but you know that it was all rehearsed before, and the set was designed.

Either you or I, and quite possbily both, are beating a dead horse here. Again, you speak like a magician. Only someone who already has a technical understanding of the performance of magic would seriously (key word) consider these things. Try looking at it from the spectators POV for once.

But when a stranger approaches you and makes a credit card disappear, or makes a cigarette disappear, or restores a can, or even just makes your card vanish from the deck. That seems like, it just happened.

More dead horse beating. Be careful or you're going to piss off PETA.

I am curious to see how many people understand what I'm saying.

I'm going to be honest man, and I'm not tying to be mean. It's bloody hard to understand what you mean when I'm not sure even you understand the subject in full. This post reads like a first year freshman trying to write a senior Theseus about a subject they've only been studying for a week. You make some interesting points, but they apply to all genres of magic and don't support your opinion that "street" magic is the "best", and certainly not so over stage.

I think what you've done is nothing more (or less) declared your love for "street" magic style presentations, and quite possibly your preference for this genre than any other genre available... Which is fine. However that changes the delivery of your entire post, and that's not the way you presented it.
 
I have plenty of people who would disagree with you on calling my facts biased and flawed. I have done both (Stage and street). So they are not biased one bit. My opinions come from experience. I suggest you learn to accept that people have other opinions because people aren't as nice as I am. I haven't seen a bit of experience form you except to instigate an argument, and knock it off! I know for a fact it isn't the same with every spectator. Some people like grand illusion, some people like to see the ring vanish and appear in their back pocket. Again, it is a difference of opinions.

No experience? mmkay buddy now you really do not know what you are talking about. You say street magic creates a sense of wonder for the audience, where as stage magic can be contrieved as trick boxes and such. And that resturant magic is expected. But laymen dont care if its expected or not. If you can astonish them for any amount of time, you have not killed the magic. Ive made ppl just as astonished close up at a table in a restaurant then when you walk to some random guy on the street and do some marketed trick. Its the same damn thing. I have plenty of people that WOULD call your opinion flawed and biased. What does that change?
 
Sep 15, 2007
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No experience? mmkay buddy now you really do not know what you are talking about. You say street magic creates a sense of wonder for the audience, where as stage magic can be contrieved as trick boxes and such. And that resturant magic is expected. But laymen dont care if its expected or not. If you can astonish them for any amount of time, you have not killed the magic. Ive made ppl just as astonished close up at a table in a restaurant then when you walk to some random guy on the street and do some marketed trick. Its the same damn thing. I have plenty of people that WOULD call your opinion flawed and biased. What does that change?

EDIT (because of anger):: My last post had a lot of anger, but some times you have to yell at a child so they will listen. For the last time, it was an opinion. I am done with dealing with with you because you obviously can not understand a 1st grade, simple lesson of what an opinion means. You would think that some one so well rounded as you (sarcasm, but you probably don't understand that either) would know that every spectator is different.
 
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EDIT (because of anger):: My last post had a lot of anger, but some times you have to yell at a child so they will listen. For the last time, it was an opinion. I am done with dealing with with you because you obviously can not understand a 1st grade, simple lesson of what an opinion means. You would think that some one so well rounded as you (sarcasm, but you probably don't understand that either) would know that every spectator is different.


i know what an intelligent opinion is and i know what a crap opinion is. Ill leave it at that.
 
Jan 1, 2009
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Back in Time
Because of the detailed reply I will reply to you and hopefully it will answer other questions. First off, I have seen David Copperfield, I meant that I would want to see him again. He went to Boston, surprisingly I didn't really like him. I prefered the old David. And yes, it was magical, but you go into it knowing that it has been rehearsed for weeks, it's not just random and sp0ontaneous, it has been planned. and it is understood that there is a trick to everything.

And your point being, what? Just because they know it's been rehearsed and planned that they don't enjoy it or think that it's magical? Which is an incredibly flawed way of thinking. People goes to plays all the time. Those are rehearsed and planned. The same is said for the TV shows and movies you watch. So in essence, you shouldn't be able to enjoy those because they aren't all improve.

I am trying to say that when you come out of the blue on the streets and let someone look at their watch. and then you stop it, that's absolutley crazy. That is magic to them. But in a stage, there isn't a super strong feeling of one on one magic with a spectator. I mean on the street they go "Oh my god! I saw that soda can. It wasjust there. He just grabbed it by chance. What the heck?" in a stage setting it's: "Hmmmm...I wonder why that cage is so close to the back of the stage."

Well for one if you went up to a random person and tried to do street magic. The chances are they would turn you down. Like most have said. Going up to people on the street looks creepy and weird. And no, people don't think what you said. I don't know anybody who goes around thinking that things are either set up or not. You need to stop hanging around conspiracy theorist and magicians. It's tainted the way you look at the world.

As Draven also mentioned. Rehearsal and scripting will actually enhance your magic 100x. Do you honestly believe that David Blaine's stuff isn't scripted? Because you'd be wrong. I'd rather watch somebody who knows what they are saying and how to say it. Rather than see some kid stand there for a few min and say "Ok." "Right." "ummm" "mmmm." etc etc.
 
Sep 24, 2007
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My my... what in interesting conversation, eh?

I haven't got a whole lot to say, and my opion isn't worth a whole lot in the first place, but recently I've been thinking a lot about magic, and I've come to the conclusion that Amazing the spectator isn't even what we strive to do. What we as magicians do is create a piece of art, that is beautiful, that touches the spectator. There may be moments of amazement during the journey, but in the end, it's not what matters. That's something to think about next time you practice your card magic, eh?


As a final note, we are arguing with the implicit assumption that street magic is done for 3 or 4 people off the cuff. This isn't street magic. Street magic is when Gazzo sets up a table, spends 2 hours gathering a crowd of, possibly hundreds of people, performing his magic, and passing around the hat. I agree with Jamy Ian Swiss in his statement that "street magic" does not exist. It cannot relieve a person's economic burden, and thus cannot last.
 
Aug 31, 2007
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Guys, please settle down.

This is a good topic, and you guys are ruining it by calling each other names, and getting into arguments.

Everybody has their own opinion, and they are entitled to that opinion. No need to bash!

~Zach
 
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