Talking to Kids... Or Talking Down to Them?

Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about the nature of art, where magic fits into that, and what kind of statements are being made in the modern zeitgeist. And yes, I did type all of that while sipping a cognac, stroking my goatee, and wearing a mortarboard.

I've been thinking about kids lately. I don't often perform for kids because I think a lot of the things I try to do might not be the sort of thing they'd be into. Seance theater? Too heady and requires a patience most young children haven't had time to really develop. Mind reading? You generally don't do mentalism for kids for the same reason that you don't do it on the streets. Genre deconstruction through parody and satire? Without meaning to sound like an elitist, most kids don't take enough in to be able to appreciate that sort of thing.

But then I started thinking about this a little more. And I got to looking at things I like and saw some patterns emerging.

I suppose it started when I read a column on Cracked dot com (no link because the language is a bit strong for a family-friendly website) by Michael Swaim in which he described 10 video games that should be classified as modern art. I smiled as I remembered playing some of the titles myself. The Oddworld games, the Fallout series, Psychonauts... I was a little surprised to see that the first on the list was Katamari Damacy. He described it as follows:

Here we can rediscover the unfettered creative force of childhood, when magic was plentiful and the impossible was just a matter of time and patience.
That sentence really caught my eye. It got me thinking, and I started to look a little deeper into my vast (and nerdy) collection of media to see what I could find to expand on those renegade thoughts bouncing around in my head. I came up with some very peculiar examples and that led my already badly confused brain down even more different paths.

The first thing I looked through was my trade paperbacks of PS238. For those unfamiliar, the title is a comic book series by Aaron Williams about the world's first public school for the children of superheroes. The focal character is Tyler Marlocke, the son of two of the world's most powerful heroes who himself possesses no superpowers whatsoever. His parents enrolled him anyway, convinced he had some grand cosmic destiny to fulfill. Later on he makes friends with Julie Finster who is the 84th metahuman documented with the flight, invulnerability, strength, and speed powerset. The two of them both share identity crises. Tyler has no powers but must survive in an environment full of children who could flatten a building. Julie has powers but she's seen as nothing special and redundant.

The series is family-oriented and is unique in that it is able to talk to children about complex issues such as identity, wisdom, bravery, ingenuity, self-respect and the desire to do the right thing without ever insulting their intelligence. It shows instead of tells. Above all it proves that children can understand and digest complex material without having to be led by the hand. Williams trusts the reader's imagination to fill in the gaps, he gives his readers the benefit of believing enough in their intelligence to be able to connect the dots, pick up the meanings and infer without being beaten about the head with hamfisted explanations and exposition.

After that, I looked at some of my Pixar DVDs. I started to pick up that Pixar has done something that Disney all but abandoned by the time I hit my teenage years. You notice that most of their movies are about male leads and the stories have very male themes. These are cartoons for guys. And in many ways they try to make the perspective of the older generations more accessible to younger viewers. A Bug's Life is The Magnificent Seven as told from the perspective of the guy who's got a lot to give but doesn't know how. The Incredibles has a lot of father/son subtext. Toy Story is the inevitability of growing up and the conflicting messages from different influences that come with it.

Next I found my old Calvin & Hobbes books. I reread them once a year and find something new every time. When I first started reading the series I was about... 12 I think. I was enthralled. It was the one newspaper comic I never passed over. Ever. As a kid I remember identifying a lot with Calvin, though in hindsight that said some less than flattering things about me as a child. As I got older I started to see new ways of reading it and came to appreciate the depth of the comics in a way I never had anything else prior. Bill Waterson tapped into the mind of youthful imagination, ambition, selfishness, alienation, and impatience. Very powerful stuff.

I went to my video games and this will naturally lead to me once again raising Psychonauts up on a pedestal. I was struck by the fact that this is a game that kids will be attracted to because of the comic book-y aesthetic, but at the same time it deals with some truly weird and even sometimes dark themes. And this is all told from the perspective of a 10-year-old boy with enough enthusiasm and zeal to power the Vegas strip, but also possesses a certain classiness and charm when interacting with his fellow campers that makes him more than just another excitable little boy.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I took a couple days to let this stew in my head. I started to think that maybe I was just looking for excuses not to perform for kids. I remembered a Christmas party I did a couple years ago. One of the effects I did was to show two blank billets and ask a child what they wanted for Christmas and wrote it down on one billet then placed the blank one on top of it. I placed the billets in their hands. They felt a cool breeze blow against their hands and when they looked again, the blank billet now had writing on it saying:

Merry Christmas
Santa


I could only do it a few times that evening, but the kids it happened for were jumping up and down with eyes bugging out of their heads. They didn't care that the trick wasn't flashy and ostentatious. It was two pieces of paper and a pen. They didn't marvel at the impossibility of what to adults would have been one of my trademark displays of spirit writing. No, this was a magic that they understood intimately. This was a magic that made sense to them. They just got a little wink from Santa Claus, whom a 6-year-old believes to be as real as their own parents. And why shouldn't he be able to send messages on a cold northern wind? He's Santa! He can do anything!

I know this all sounds kind of self-serving of me to bring up, but here's the thing: I didn't even realize I'd made that good of an effect until I thought about it later with this new perspective. It was a really good effect, and I'm kicking myself for not doing it this past Christmas. I just didn't appreciate it at the time because I'd sort of stumbled into it without really thinking about it and only was able to appreciate what it meant to those kids that Christmas when I started to think about the things I've shared with you here. I sincerely doubt I'm the first person to have thought of it, but I still can't believe that I didn't realize what I had.

After thinking about this some, I decided to look at some videos of magicians performing for kids. Most of them were teeth-grindingly bad. I kept having to restrain myself from shouting at the screen, "Come on, the kid's not stupid! Show, don't tell!" It's not that the effects themselves were bad, it's that the magicians just seemed to feel like they needed to lead the kid by the hand the whole way through. Children don't see or react to the world the way that adults do, but that doesn't mean they don't think. I kept mentally contrasting it to Wall-E, a film that charmed and enthralled children even though there was barely a word uttered until the second half of the movie. Children fell in love with that movie. I heard a father describe taking his 2-year-old son to the see it and as he carried the boy out of the theater, the kid turned around in his dad's arms to wave over his shoulder and shout, "Bye, Wall-E! Bye!" I'm not even kidding when I say that if the thought of that doesn't make you at least smile, then you're made of stone.

The conclusion I've come to through all my pretentious, snobby meditations on what is and is not art is that somewhere along the way a lot magicians, myself included... sort of forgot what this stuff means to kids. We ended up talking down to them and their intelligence by mistake. Some of us (guilty as charged on this one) were in such a rush to be taken seriously that we lost perspective. Some of us just ended up going through the motions and never really thought about it. But I think most of us just never really learned how to tell a story that was accessible to all ages. In an industry where the "kiddy" lable has a stigma attached to it because of its association with saccharine sunshine-fests (the whole Disney princess fixation), needless retro cash-ins (those bloody awful Alvin and the Chipmunks movies), and irritating franchise mongering (anything Nickelodean has crapped out since the first Rugrats movie), it seems that genuinely intelligent and thoughtful products for kids are becoming harder to find because people are thinking that making stuff for kids is beneath them.

That's not to say they aren't out there. The film adaptation of Where the Wild Things Are is the closest the new generation has gotten so far to a Calvin and Hobbes. The Harry Potter series deserves praise for dealing with progressively more mature themes as the series went on, allowing Harry to develop as a character and mature with his audience. And Pixar as I mentioned manages to make complex and intelligent themes for boys and men accessible to all generations.

I'm calling on magicians who find themselves performing for kids to really consider what you're presenting. David Blaine did something wonderful in his first TV special by making magic acceptable for everybody to like, regardless of age, class, race, or background. But I have to wonder if maybe in our eagerness to take advantage of this new recognition and revival we might have let our skills with the children in the audience get a bit rusty. I understand now that I have.
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
I have presented both mind reading and seance theater to "kids" to both great acclaim and financial success.

One issue we face, however, is the definition of "kid."

When you are discussing kids under the age of three, there are certain developmental and maturity issues that must be taken into account when one decides to perform for them. Between 5-9 tends to be a crapshoot when it comes to sizing up a given child or audience. They are all developing at such different rates that one cannot speak from the general to the specific or vice versa.

Once you hit about 10, however, I think you have a receptive audience for most any type of magic. This is also the age when kids start resenting those that "talk down" to them. This is when a kid either comes to love or hate magic, depending a lot I think on to whom they are exposed.

Unfortunately, most magicians treat the 9-16 year olds like they are 3-5 year olds. This is why some groups in the Northeast hire magicians just so they can "bust their chops." (In truth, that is not WHY they hire them, but that is what they expect to do upon watching them. Most of them have never seen magic performed deceptively let alone entertainingly).

While "kids" are not adults, their sensibilities are more adult than most adults give them credit for. Consequently, many themes are far more interesting to them than most of the clap trap which passes for magic.

HAVING SAID THAT - do NOT assume this gives you permission you be "dirty" or "suggestive." The irony in this situation is that the more worldly the kid is, the more one needs to be cautious with what you say. That sly remark which used to fly over their head is now fully comprehended and their parents will not (should not) be thrilled with your cleverness.

With the exception of very young kids (where issues of attention span and basic personal maturity and intellectual development can influence a performance) there is little reason to "play down" the magic or your approach to it. Even then, there are young people who can easily appreciate mentalism and bizarre magic. In the former case you have to deal with keeping things simple to follow and in the later, one need avoid being too scary. For many of these kids, what we do is real.
 
Dec 12, 2009
273
0
London Uk
If I get a call or an email for a gig if the spectator says its a mixed audience kids and adults then I try to have a visual routine ( some cool stuff in the DG project 1-3 and torn and restored etc etc) to have everyone interested, even adults like visual stuff its does not have to be some magic with me talking everyway through. Thats why if I have some patter for kids like you said " the kid is not stupid" in fact there imagining skills make them GREAT for magic performances. Sometimes a kid might even be annoyed by the magician talking down at them.
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,808
897
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
Hey, great thoughts. Give me something to think about, as I do not like performing for kids, but I get so many calls for kids shows. I'm just trying to build my first kids show, so this is a helpful perspective.

Thanks for the thoughts.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I have presented both mind reading and seance theater to "kids" to both great acclaim and financial success.

Hence my above-mentioned realization that I was just looking for excuses in an attempt to be taken seriously. However, I think part of my bias may have been because I had never actually seen anybody else pull it off. I mentally filed it off as unfeasible before I had the chance to think about it more in depth.

If you have something you could point me to so I could fill that gap in, that would be fantastic.

Between 5-9 tends to be a crapshoot when it comes to sizing up a given child or audience. They are all developing at such different rates that one cannot speak from the general to the specific or vice versa.

If I may, I think the one generality that should still apply is, "Show, don't tell." As you said, kids typically have more developed sensibilities than many give them credit for. If anything, they'd probably be more prone to spot any inconsistencies between telling and showing than adults.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 12, 2009
273
0
London Uk
Hey, great thoughts. Give me something to think about, as I do not like performing for kids, but I get so many calls for kids shows. I'm just trying to build my first kids show, so this is a helpful perspective.

Thanks for the thoughts.


Exactly people want magicians to perform for kids, you could be the most ultimate mentalist or what ever but there are many books on good kids magic and you could also make a different persona for kids.
 
Some interesting thoughts. I tend to shy away from performing magic for kids. It's not my venue and i know it. However I do work with kids on a daily bases at Universal Studios. You certainly don't want to talk down to them. They know when you are doing it and they will not like it.

it also helps that when you are talking to a younger child to take a knee instead of bending over. it puts you on their level.

a good read steer.
 
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