What do you guys think of eBay?

[Mr.Ection]

The only way I can see them not being is if the book is discontinued. Otherwise yes. Is the author or publishing house receiving anything from the sale?

I don’t know about you but I don’t like working for free.

Are you buying it new or used?
I already responded to it. Was there a specific part that was confusing?

I think you might be reaching here but facts are facts.

so you have no problem with this guy selling the warning dvd since it been discontinued?

Truely, the way i see it is, if the material is even worth purchasing then it came from a working pro. And a real working pro makes at least 95 percent of their living off of their work, and just made a dvd or book to give back to the magic community. SO they probably don't give a rats a$$ if someone resells their product.

Authors and publishers go into the business knowing that their books can be resold. It probably only takes no more than 1 percent of their sales (just a random guess).

But honestly people like jay sankey who make their entire living off of dvd sales I can do without. Not to say that he doesn't put out some good stuff every once in a while but when you release every freaking idea you have it starts to get rediculous.

 

[Flyspazz]

so you have no problem with this guy selling the warning dvd since it been discontinued?

Nope.

And a real working pro makes at least 95 percent of their living off of their work, and just made a dvd or book to give back to the magic community.

Yeah. All that work just to give a little back to the community. Not likely.

SO they probably don't give a rats a$$ if someone resells their product.

No one seems to believe me on this. Why dont you ask a creator?

Authors and publishers go into the business knowing that their books can be resold.

Here we go again. Besides just because you can do something wrong doesnt mean you should.

But honestly people like jay sankey who make their entire living off of dvd sales I can do without.

He doesnt make his living just off dvd sales.

Not to say that he doesn't put out some good stuff every once in a while but when you release every freaking idea you have it starts to get rediculous.

I'm not arguing that.

I didnt mean to spiral your thread into the pits by standing my ground but it looks like I did so I digress.

 

[Steerpike]

I dont know if he does or not but that doesnt change the fact that you stole from him. Why dont you go buy a PDF from Sean Fields then send him an email telling him your going to share it with your group of friends so they dont have to buy it. I'm sure he wont mind and that wont be me pounding on your door it will be that big lug Fields. Better yet go to a Justin Miller lecture and afterwords be sure to make a bunch of photocopies of the notes to pass out amongst your peers. Why not burn copies of your favorite movies to make a little side cash while your at it.

Apples and oranges. Selling off an item that you have no use for anymore is not the same thing as making duplicates of copyrighted material for personal profit.

That is what copyright law refers to when talking about reselling material. It is not referring to selling a used paperback book to a used bookstore for a fraction of the cost you paid for the book.

I am stating my stance just as you are. I'm saying I wouldnt want someone to steal from me and I would want credit for what I produced. Therefore I choose to act accordingly and do what I feel is right.

Your name is still on the book being sold. How are you not getting credit? You're getting off on a weird tangent.

Why would you? It doesnt have any effect on you. Who cares about the guy who worked hard and put his time into something just to be hoodwinked buy some punk on youtube or some dude locked in his room burning copies so he can sell them on ebay for half price.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about people hocking their old stuff they don't need anymore.

If you're photocopying a book and selling those copies while keeping the original yourself, then that is illegal. Selling off your old stuff that you don't use anymore isn't.

No one seems to believe me on this. Why dont you ask a creator?

I have several projects coming down the line. Would I be offended if someone who doesn't want one of my products anymore decides to sell it on eBay? Of course not!

When you get right down to it, I've still technically moved the same amount of product and reaped the maximum possible benefit from it. I'm a believer in giving up short-term profit for long-term. People hocking old copies of my material that they don't want anymore just increases my presence in the minds of present and future customers and makes them more likely to support me in future endeavors.

Frankly, I'm dismayed that the magic community is turning more and more into a distinctly American business model: short-term profit is everything, and hyperlitigious behavior is the best way to get more of it.

 

[descartes]

@Flyspazz, I wrote

By your arguments, libraries should no longer exist because lots of people might just read a book once and never buy it. I'm sure there are many libraries that carry magic books. Are you going to accuse them of being thieves?

To which you replied

No. The books were purchased.

I'm sure the people who were selling on Ebay paid for the book/dvd when they bought it. Ultimately, there isn't really a difference between second hand bookstores, libraries and ebay sellers. Your argument assumes there is a big difference.

One more thing, you mentioned making copies of a pdf. That is entirely different and is something governed by copyright law. Steerpike is right to say that you are comparing apples and oranges.

Anyway, If you still disagree, that is fine but if you want to convince the rest of us, you need to make your arguments more logical.

 

[SplitHeavens]

I just read a little bit about Warning and so...is it dangerous at all?

I'm completely against smoking and I just want to know.

 

[Steerpike]

It recently occurred to me. I know my argument is not technically about torrents and the like, that I was talking specifically about the second-hand market. However, I felt I should point something out.

Calling someone a thief for using torrents doesn't scan. It's not theft because you are receiving a copy and the original does not change hands. Legally speaking, it falls under copyright infringement. You can toss semantics about all you want, but calling someone who uses torrents a thief doesn't really hold up when you actually take the law into account.

Regardless, I still stand by my stance that the secondhand market of selling used copies of books and DVDs is not theft or copyright infringement and I have yet to see a single argument as to why I'm wrong about that.

 

[StevenLevitt]

Right... So my Dad is moving to a different country, and he has given me a lot of his magic and mentalism. I will never use it, what should I do? Throw it away? Sell it on E-bay? Give it back to the producer of the effect?

 

[JustinClark]

I love all the effort and excuses everyone comes up with in their attempt to try to justify these actions.

If you’re reselling or buying it doesn’t really matter your still part of the process. Whether it’s a regular book, cd, magic dvd or magic book has no bearing. You’re using the creator or artists work for yourself and credit is going to them or their publishers. It does have an overall effect on them. Just ask a band or an author or a distributer, they’ll tell you. That’s why it’s illegal. It’s called stealing.

So if you want to save a couple of bucks no ones going to stop you but don’t try to mask it or pawn it off with some feeble reasoning. Call yourself what you are. A thief.

Have you been brainwashed? lol If you buy a product, you own the product. You can sell it on eBay if you want, its not illegal. If you really believe this logic I assume you've NEVER bought something second hand? Like from Half Price books, or a used DVD from the record store or BlockBuster?

 

[Flyspazz]

Alright, I’ll admit to being rather militant in my views on this and reading back through this I definitely strayed off course a little with what the point was. Next time I decide to go on a weekend bender I’ll keep my tail off the boards so sorry about that.

The main thing with me is I think the creators should get the credit they deserve when they release something.

Take for example magician A.
He buys the latest and greatest new DVD and it’s actually good so he decides to us it in his routine. After a few weeks hes got it down and doesn’t need the DVD anymore so he sells it to magician B on ebay who also likes and uses it in his routine. This can happen several times with the exact same DVD not to mention the other DVD’s.

Now in your mind that maybe ok but to me if I'm using it in my routine the creator should get the credit. In my mind he was robbed and if he was robbed there has to be a thief.

I'm not playing the holier-than-thou roll on this one either. There are a lot of circumstances where it seems reasonable. I was given a lot by my mentor without paying for it but that doesn’t make it right necessarily. I'm not saying everyone should agree with me either as is obvious here. However, somewhere the line of morality needs to be drawn. If not it’s the creators who lose out which then trickles down to everyone else.

 

[RickEverhart]

Alright, I’ll admit to being rather militant in my views on this and reading back through this I definitely strayed off course a little with what the point was. Next time I decide to go on a weekend bender I’ll keep my tail off the boards so sorry about that.

The main thing with me is I think the creators should get the credit they deserve when they release something.

Take for example magician A.
He buys the latest and greatest new DVD and it’s actually good so he decides to us it in his routine. After a few weeks hes got it down and doesn’t need the DVD anymore so he sells it to magician B on ebay who also likes and uses it in his routine. This can happen several times with the exact same DVD not to mention the other DVD’s.

Now in your mind that maybe ok but to me if I'm using it in my routine the creator should get the credit. In my mind he was robbed and if he was robbed there has to be a thief.

I'm not playing the holier-than-thou roll on this one either. There are a lot of circumstances where it seems reasonable. I was given a lot by my mentor without paying for it but that doesn’t make it right necessarily. I'm not saying everyone should agree with me either as is obvious here. However, somewhere the line of morality needs to be drawn. If not it’s the creators who lose out which then trickles down to everyone else.

If I purchase a used magic DVD off eBay and 3 other magicians before me have purchased that same DVD and now have the material memorized....who cares? I paid for the used DVD...will learn the material and probably resell it as well. Is it wrong? Maybe...who cares though. Every single person who viewed it paid the fee of getting it.

Now if I were to purchase the DVD...burn unlimited copies and then resell the burnt copies to friends, then yes, I feel that is wrong.

 

[herdman14]

Guys,

Chevrolet and Ford are now suing all used car dealerships because they are selling Chevy/Ford models without paying royalties to the manufacturers.

A spokesperson for Ford suggests that when you, the consumer, are finished with the car, please turn it back into the Ford plant so they can reburbish and resell it.

I hope all magic creators follow suit.

 

[Flyspazz]

If I purchase a used magic DVD off eBay and 3 other magicians before me have purchased that same DVD and now have the material memorized....who cares? I paid for the used DVD...will learn the material and probably resell it as well. Is it wrong? Maybe...who cares though. Every single person who viewed it paid the fee of getting it.

They paid for it but who received the money? Not the creator.

Oh and if they resold it they got it half of as well. Hmmm.

Chevrolet and Ford are now suing all used car dealerships because they are selling Chevy/Ford models without paying royalties to the manufacturers.

A spokesperson for Ford suggests that when you, the consumer, are finished with the car, please turn it back into the Ford plant so they can reburbish and resell it.

I hope all magic creators follow suit.

Not relevant. When you resell a car you cant use it anymore. With magic you still get to use it along with the next person down the line that you sell it to.

 

[aJohnson]

This thread is misleading in a way, you're bashing all of ebay without trying to to bash all of ebay. Most of you are forgetting that many ebay sellers are like stores, they buy new and sell new for a fair price. It would be better to say "What do you think of SECOND HAND selling on Ebay".

 

[StevenLevitt]

Books, Music, Films... Explain. You can still know and tell the story. You can still know and sing a song. You can still know and visualise the film.

Let me ask you a question then. If you have a magic DVD, what do you do if you do not use it any more?

 

[Steerpike]

Oh and if they resold it they got it half of as well. Hmmm.

I wouldn't exactly call that profiting, which is the whole basis of copyright infringement.

 

[herdman14]

Not relevant. When you resell a car you cant use it anymore. With magic you still get to use it along with the next person down the line that you sell it to.

Oh but it is. If I resell an Extractor or Tarantula DVD or the CD with Departure to someone else along with the prop/gimmick, I can no longer perform it.

I would love for an actual creator to get in this thread and explain how they feel.