What happened here?

[Craig Browning]

A lot of the members on the forums here aren't as knowledgable when it comes to books, the only way this will change is if people like you guys post up about books that you feel are valuable.

Some people might not be interested, but if even one or two people take something from your post, it makes it worthwhile.

Dee is right and quite frankly, I'd love to see other people speak up who actually do read and study this stuff. . . not to sound arrogant, but I actually get a bit tired playing Encyclopedia . . . I rarely see anyone link people to books and resources the way I do and given the lethargy in so many these days, that's just a way to say HERE, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED and they have no excuse. Either they will invest in the source and actually learn something or they will try to find an easy way around that and fail in the long run.

I have around 1,500 books in my magic library alone (another few hundred on other topics) I've read if not studied all of them, some of them two or three times. This is why I have the ability to either answer questions or at least point people to where they may find their answers. Maybe it's just me, but I feel that this is one of those things that separate the real MAGICIANS from the clowns that do tricks.

 

[TeeDee]

Dee is right and quite frankly, I'd love to see other people speak up who actually do read and study this stuff. . . not to sound arrogant, but I actually get a bit tired playing Encyclopedia . . . I rarely see anyone link people to books and resources the way I do and given the lethargy in so many these days, that's just a way to say HERE, THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED and they have no excuse.

Given that, I'd love to get your thoughts on my Book of the Month proposal, Craig.

 

[krab]

One of the things that make me beat my head against the wall is when you point out what book an effect is in people want the video or they come in and link a video that only as that one effect on it. People say "well I would rather have the video." It's Maddening.

 

[Deechristopher]

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to learn from a video, it's like saying; "Why don't you walk to the shop?" ... "I'd rather drive." Both have their advantages and disadvantages. It depends what you're looking to get out of it. Sometimes books are great, but if there's a difficult move or something quite complex to explain in words, a video can make the learning process much easier.

I learn from both books and videos and don't have a problem with either. I agree that some people are missing a lot of good stuff by not searching backwards at the things in print though, I'm the first guy to scour the bargin bin at conventions to find amazing old mentalism manuscripts from the 30s/40s, I've found a lot of gold in them!!

 

[krab]

Never said video is bad. Video only is bad. Turning your nose up at any book is bad. Getting upset when someone points out your great new effect was in a book from the 1880's. Most of the kids are so anti books it feels like they are gonna have a bonfire.

 

[the_dude42]

So, update on the search for a good forum about the discussion of books: The Orbit Brown Forums! They are some incredibly nifty chaps who seem to read just as much I do... maybe even more. It's quite amazing, you all should check it out!

As far as the book of the month... can we please, please, please do this? I would love to do a "beginner's guide to reading" as well, because there are so many great books that people should read that AREN'T Royal Road. The essay at the beginning of the Art of Astonishment Trilogy is a good example (everyone should read that at least once a year, if not more).

 

[ChrisWiens]

The essay at the beginning of the Art of Astonishment Trilogy is a good example (everyone should read that at least once a year, if not more).

Which you can read for free in the "Magic in Mind" e-book. The idea Joshua Jay had in mind was to encourage more magicians, especially the young generation, to read. This book is an excellent candidate for the book of the month.It`s a collection of some of the best essays ever published.
For free!
http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic-downloads/free-magic-downloads/magic-in-mind/

 

[the_dude42]

This is most excellent man. Seriously, thank you for this gift. I've got some reading to do.

 

[Steerpike]

This is the third time I've said this, and it probably won't be the last because it never seems to stick.

My problem with the video heavy approach is that I always hear the same stupid excuse: "I'm a visual learner." This is another case of a little bit of knowledge in the hands of a fool. Learning styles are not based on medium, they're simply a shorthand used to describe the lens through which you contextualize your thought processes.

A visual learner doesn't automatically learn better through DVDs than books. Anyone who tells you different has no clue what they're talking about or lying to you in order to sell a DVD. I'm a visual learner. What that means is that my brain contextualizes information by creating intricate webs, flow charts, maps and tapestries of interconnected information. During a conversation, I'm keeping track of every tangent involved like the branches on a tree.

An auditory learner follows much more structure in their thought processes. They think almost like sheet music, with everything following clear, ordered patterns and progressions. They organize their thoughts in lists and hierarchies.

A kinesthetic learner is the most abstract of the three styles. They contextualize information through action. They need to actually do something to internalize it. They think in terms of feelings, flow and verbs.

Make sure you explain this to someone the next time they use the "visual learner" excuse for why they don't want to read books.

 

[Deechristopher]

My problem with the video heavy approach is that I always hear the same stupid excuse: "I'm a visual learner."

While I agree that it's useful for people to know what being a visual learner actually means, it doesn't really matter in this discussion.

I love to read books myself, but I know people that don't really enjoy reading. I'm talking about people outside of magic. This doesn't make them a bad person or make them wrong in any way; they just prefer to watch video than to read written word.

There is a lot of stuff in books that there isn't in videos, but equally, there's a lot of stuff in videos that there isn't in books. i.e. a very easy to follow, visual aid.

Whether you're learning magic, first aid or how to do a 360 flip on a skateboard, there is no right or wrong way to gain information. It's down to preference.

It's also worth noting, that some people are hobbyists and do just want to learn a few easy tricks, not how to become a proper magician.

 

[Steerpike]

I was raised in a family where the arts and humanities are highly valued. So I honestly cannot get my head around how anyone can say that they want to completely cut out an entire medium from their learning process.

My father is in his mid-50's and is studying gamification. And all these guys younger than me come in here and adamantly refuse to read books. I truly don't get it.

 

[the_dude42]

I mean, you also have to examine today's society. The last generation to really read Was Generation X, but you still have some of the fallout from Generation Y, with the later part of that generation (94/5- up) being almost completely oblivious to what books really are. Television teaches us too, right?! Most of the latter part of Gen Y and Gen Z grew up not knowing what it was like to not have computer. Hell, most of those people didn't even live in a world without ipods. There are too many other "interesting" things besides books that are easier to get into. I mean, to me, there is not one video game or movie that can touch what the Dark Tower series, or the Hobbit, did for me as a kid. But most people today aren't even encouraged to read. You want news? Cnn.com. Most of that contains videos! Newspapers are dying out, which to me, is a strong indicator that the written word is dying off. It really f****** sucks to say, but more and more everyday does it seem like the Winstons of the world become smaller.

 

[Steerpike]

I suppose that feeds into the issue of perceived mutual exclusivity. Some people have actually told me that they don't believe a certain medium aligns with the character archetype they've chosen for themselves, correctly or otherwise. Older folks don't believe games have any artistic merit, despite the fact that Planescape: Torment was the first game to get my adolescent brain to think seriously of philosophy. Younger guys don't want to read books, despite the fact that my vast library of novels has made me an infinitely better writer than them. Hell, some people have even said they see no value in movies even after I explain to them how David Cronenberg's movies have shaped my own artistic style. More than a few are content to stop their musical horizons at dubstep in spite of the fact that 1 day of research will yield entire genres and eras of music you didn't know you were into.

Again, I just don't get why anyone would say they don't want to experience any medium. My life is so much richer for my artistic and intellectual curiosity.

 

[krab]

I have some videos. I like lecture style over one trick DVDs. Really love it when the lecture DVD has the notes as a PDF. But with a DVD you really don't get all of the break down like you do in print. Many of the guys in the videos tell you what books these moves come from and that you really need to look at those books.

 

[the_dude42]

I mean I'm right there with you. But it seems that being narrow minded is what is being taught nowadays. Which is ironic considering all the talk of gay rights that goes on on social media each and everyday. People, especially young people, seem to be so influenced by today's pop culture that I feel if you gave them the option of watching a David Lynch film or an oral reading of Crime and punishment, I think their heads would just explode. It seems that all young people talk about anymore are weed, the latest music, and what their favorite celebrity is. I wish I could say it wasn't that shallow. I wish.

 

[Steerpike]

In the latter case, the weed isn't what bothers me since I'm pro-legalization. The Beatles didn't write their best work under the influence of Dr. Pepper if nothing else. It's the celebrity culture that boggles my mind. Especially the trend of reality TV and being famous for being famous. Interestingly, I heard a bit on NPR about how women are trying to emulate Kim Kardashion's voice and what an unbelievably ****ty idea that is. See, what Kim does is called vocal fry. You relax the vocal cords and place the voice in the throat rather than resonating it so that the cords rattle off one another, producing a rattling, creaky sound. A little bit of this here and there can produce a tone that makes a certain point through subtext, but speaking with it as often as Kim Kardashion does is actually a good way to ruin your voice in the long-term. Vocal fry dries out and irritates the cords. Long-term, it's just as damaging to the voice as chain smoking or constant screaming.

But I'm getting off on a tangent. The ray of hope I see is that there is a shift going on. Look up the book "Fans, Friends and Followers." It's a series of interviews with artists who exploited New Nedia to make a living doing what they love. And, little something for the card fanboys, Dan and Dave Buck are among the interviews. In a nutshell, these guys got their fans not by manufacturing celebrity but by taking advantage of New Media to put out quality products and then interact with their fans in a way that was impossible before. We get to know these artists as people, not just a face on some slick packaging.

 

[the_dude42]

As to your first point, I am as well, but not just for all the thirteen year olds in the world to think they are all that because they smoke. As Pink Floyd is in fact my favorite band, I would concur.

I'm surprised I even know who Kim Kardashion is mate.

I'll have to check it out mate, thanks for a good read.

 

[Lyle Borders]

Hey guys!

Open discussion is great, but we are starting to swing WAY off topic here. Feel free to pick up the magic related discussion in new threads. Remember, we are in a forum that has a very young audience. Keeping discussion on magic helps to keep these forums friendly for all of our members.

Thanks!