What happened?

[LuseifHo]

Clean = No Clean Up = Easy
People wnat to have good ol tricks where its a miracle without the work.
I honestly dont care as long as its not somethign totally dirty like
"And if I throw the coin at the bag, it is now inside. And no you cannot keep the bag or the coin. Theyre mine... mine..."

 

[nexusmagic]

People wnat to have good ol tricks where its a miracle without the work.

Well then
HEY PEOPLE MAGICIANS ARE NOT GODS, THEY CAN'T PERFORM PERFECT MIRACLES! IF YOU THINK THEY CAN LET ME TASER YOU WITH TRUTH BY SAYING...

nothing is perfect in the real world.

 

[D ICE R]

Thankyou Nexus for the comment about the name, however I cannot take credit for it. An ex-girlfriend made it up, come to think about it, it was the only good thing to come out of that relationship.

Back to the topic at hand, I thought that I might as well add an aside thought to the original post. As magician's gimmicks have always been huge part of achieving the effect. Yes gimmicks make the effects easier or even possible but it is always nice to have a skill based method to fall back on. I mean take the invisible deck an amazing effect but is anybody saying that it is terrible because the spectator cannot spread the deck. Ben Earl has a nice variation that where the spec can spread the deck. However what it gains in practicality (regular deck) and handling it falls short in the selection procedure. Ben does an amazing job to make this (as much as possible) fall from the spectator's mind.

I guess the point I am trying to make is we should use the gimmicks because they are amazing tools but always try to have a back up, that you can do on the spot. But if you have something truly amazing that is impromptu (like pressure) you should just accept its few flaws because the reactions that they achieve are more than enough natural misdirection to clean up.

 

[tokyoUW]

I don't really care if I end clean or if I use gimmicks. The method is not important, it's how it looks to a spectator. They don't know if you end clean, they don't if you're using a gimmick. Why should you let it get in the way of magic.

I can't believe you said this... from reading your posts before, I had some respect for you. You told other magicians how it was, straight up, no beating around the bush. That being said, I thought you were actually a magician who knew what he was talking about, someone who held magic at a higher level than the up and coming youtube generation...

From this post a lone... you are nothing more nothing better than the hacks on youtube.

"I dont care if I use gimmicks." "The method is not important..." "They don't know if you end clean, they don't know if you're using a gimmick." For crying out loud...

http://www.doublefacers.com/2009/03/sleight-of-hand-vs-gimmicks/

Read the post and comments, and don't be a sell out.

 

[D ICE R]

I am not going to try defend tally-ho but I believe what he said was on par with what was said in the comments of the blog you posted. Using a gimmick is sometimes only way to achieve the desired effect. While using tape to aid in a palm that is just lazy. However to use an invisible deck or a raven to achieve the something truly magical is perfectly acceptable. I mean David Blaine used these simple gimmicks in his TV special and brought magic back into the main stream. And gave effects that were defiantly achievable by everyone. Yes Blaine has amazing sleight of hand and can achieve the same reactions using purely his own abilities.

I believe that tally-ho from reading his posts would probably agree with the blog that the gimmicks are sometimes the best method for achieving the desired effect. I think that his quote was taken out of context. I mean the blog says its fine to use an extra coin or shell to aid in creating the magic for the spectators.

 

[Twozwozer]

As I saw from some people's reaction to the Pressure method. I think some magicians want real magic....

Cheers, Tom

 

[praetoritevong]

Judging from the reaction, more than one 'magician' wants reactions handed to them on a platter, without having to work for it.

 

[tally-ho]

ok, let me clear things up. First off, I do NOT agree with people using gimmicks out of laziness or lack of skill. I agree completely with the article. I was saying that a gimmick should not get in the way of an effect because sometimes they are the only way to accomplish a certain effect. Even the invisible deck can be made into a trick without gimmicks, but does that make it a better effect? Yes and no. There are flaws in each method.

 

[LuseifHo]

I can't believe you said this... from reading your posts before, I had some respect for you. You told other magicians how it was, straight up, no beating around the bush. That being said, I thought you were actually a magician who knew what he was talking about, someone who held magic at a higher level than the up and coming youtube generation...

From this post a lone... you are nothing more nothing better than the hacks on youtube.

"I dont care if I use gimmicks." "The method is not important..." "They don't know if you end clean, they don't know if you're using a gimmick." For crying out loud...

http://www.doublefacers.com/2009/03/sleight-of-hand-vs-gimmicks/

Read the post and comments, and don't be a sell out.

I didnt get that post
Is he saying gimmicks are crap and sleight of hand is good?
Ofcourse it is good to have skill. Everyone should atleast practice.
But if there was a easier method with the same of everything else, would you take it? I know I would.
If there is an effect which requires the SWEShift, a clipshift, and 3 other shifts, ending with the move used in Raise Rise, But there is a gimmick which will let you do all that without the 10 years of practice, I would go for the gimmick surely.
Whats wrong with using gimmicks?

 

[tally-ho]

I think he's saying that people should not always depend on gimmicks, which, in my opinion is true.

 

[nexusmagic]

I can't believe you said this... from reading your posts before, I had some respect for you. You told other magicians how it was, straight up, no beating around the bush. That being said, I thought you were actually a magician who knew what he was talking about, someone who held magic at a higher level than the up and coming youtube generation...

From this post a lone... you are nothing more nothing better than the hacks on youtube.

"I dont care if I use gimmicks." "The method is not important..." "They don't know if you end clean, they don't know if you're using a gimmick." For crying out loud...

http://www.doublefacers.com/2009/03/...d-vs-gimmicks/

Read the post and comments, and don't be a sell out.

I think you might have misinterpreted Tally's post.
He doesn't use gimmicks all the time, but will use them from time to time to aid in creating a great trick.

also the link is unfortunately broken.

 

[Steerpike]

"I dont care if I use gimmicks." "The method is not important..." "They don't know if you end clean, they don't know if you're using a gimmick." For crying out loud...

http://www.doublefacers.com/2009/03/sleight-of-hand-vs-gimmicks/

Read the post and comments, and don't be a sell out.

First of all, you have no idea what the hell a sell out is. Don't use that phrase in my presence ever again.

Second I challenge you to actually back up your assertions and explain why he's wrong. Not that I believe you will. You seem to be all hot air and condescension.

 

[nexusmagic]

Okay I want to here opinions from the lurkers here in the forum.

 

[Magic Man4293]

A lot of magicians seem to feel that being clean is the only way to go, which it is not. Being clean is a great thing, one of my friends Shane Black said "A lot of magicians say don't run if their not chasing you, I think you shouldn't give them a reason to chase you." And I have to agree with Shane. I always end clean it's a personal preference. All tricks can end clean with a little bit of thinking it's not rocket science. And it's not a necessity.


-Michael

 

[liquidsn]

I didnt get that post
Is he saying gimmicks are crap and sleight of hand is good?
Ofcourse it is good to have skill. Everyone should atleast practice.
But if there was a easier method with the same of everything else, would you take it? I know I would.
If there is an effect which requires the SWEShift, a clipshift, and 3 other shifts, ending with the move used in Raise Rise, But there is a gimmick which will let you do all that without the 10 years of practice, I would go for the gimmick surely.
Whats wrong with using gimmicks?

A effect that requires all those shifts would first of all be a horrible trick by the way. There is a time and a place for any sleight. Using them for no reason makes no sense. I wouldn't bake a cookie by bringing out a popcorn Air popper machine. No, I just need a oven.

I think people forget that magic is a craft. You have to pursue the perfection of the art. Sleight of hand is the backbone of Magic.

For example, lets say you built a machine that you can put on your arm that automatically makes you throw a bowling ball down straight every time. You can hit 300 every game you play. So is it okay? You beat the game. But does it make you feel any better? I'm sure you feel amazing that you could build a machine that can do that but are you really bowling anymore?

I have seen people who can do invisible deck effect without a gimmick deck. I have seen coin vanishes that easily beats the raven.

If you are all for gimmicks then I would say that gimmicks now a days are really crap. Why have a card that has a denture dam that flips a flap of another card to show a change. Why not become a chemist and research a chemical that you can apply to the card that changes it. I would think that's a better method. Why dream so little if you don't care about the method?

Reminds me of a Jackson Pollock story. Some reporter says to him "So... my son can just throw some paint on a canvas. Can he call it art?" He then takes a paint brush and dips it into a paint can and flicks it across the room and the paint hits the door knob only. To laymen his art looks like he just throws paint onto a canvas and sells it for millions. But to him, there is a craft that many don't know.
Do you think he could call himself an artist if he really just threw paint without any effort?

think about it.

 

[nexusmagic]

que?

A effect that requires all those shifts would first of all be a horrible trick by the way. There is a time and a place for any sleight. Using them for no reason makes no sense. I wouldn't bake a cookie by bringing out a popcorn Air popper machine. No, I just need a oven. Wasn't that Sciffy's point?

For example, lets say you built a machine that you can put on your arm that automatically makes you throw a bowling ball down straight every time. You can hit 300 every game you play. So is it okay? You beat the game. But does it make you feel any better? I'm sure you feel amazing that you could build a machine that can do that but are you really bowling anymore? I feel this kind of contradicts what you stated in your intro I can't entirely place my finger on what I feel is wrong.

If you are all for gimmicks then I would say that gimmicks now a days are really crap. Why have a card that has a denture dam that flips a flap of another card to show a change. Why not become a chemist and research a chemical that you can apply to the card that changes it. I would think that's a better method. Why dream so little if you don't care about the method? Because a dental-dam flap isn't rocket science or Bio-chemistry Also just for an fyi the already have color changing chemical paints but our current technology is limiting what we can and can't do. Magicians when building gimmicks usually try to make them out of things lying around the house.

I do not know if I missed the backing of your message, I have that problem while talking through an emotionless machine.

 

[James Smith]

I don't really care if I end clean or if I use gimmicks. The method is not important, it's how it looks to a spectator. They don't know if you end clean, they don't if you're using a gimmick. Why should you let it get in the way of magic.

My thoughts exactly, with some of my best effects I don't end even close to clean.

Dave

 

[DrGonzo]

I think Tally-Ho hit the nail right on the head. It should be all about the spectators. If you have an amazing effect that does not end "clean", make sure you get a great reaction from you spectators, then you have plenty of time to "clean up." That is the beauty of the art of misdirection. I usually have a couple of duplicate cards, or some gimmicked cards on me when preforming. You can do some amazing stuff that will fry laymen. My personal favorites...two card transpos...and color monte.

 

[nexusmagic]

This is just a thought, Spectators reactions which is stronger, Loud OMGs or SIlence?

 

[Sean_Raf]

This is just a thought, Spectators reactions which is stronger, Loud OMGs or SIlence?

Stronger in what way?

- Sean