Which of These Tricks is Better?

[CaseyRudd]

You probably clicked on this thread thinking "Oh great, another one of these threads..."

That's exactly what we feel when we see posts that look like this. Which trick is better? Which cards are the best for flourishing? Are these cards better than Bicycles?

I think I speak on behalf of a lot of forum members when I say that thread posts like these are somewhat useless, just because they want everything spoonfed to them.

Number 1, many threads have been made on topics like these, so why not use the search bar and look up your answer?

Number 2, why should our opinions matter if it's "better or not". Each of our views on this forum are completely different, so all you're getting is mixed answers and will further confuse you.

Number 3, you're buying it, you decide. Meaning, don't let us tell you how to spend your money, do your research and decide if it will suit you best for your performance or performing style. If not, then the simple matter is to not get the product yet until you are ready for it.

Number 4, I see people asking which product is better when they give 2 COMPLETELY different products! Why would you ask if The Flourishes Disc of the Trilogy is better than the Tricks DVD? You see my point that flourishes are not the same as Tricks, and without a little background info from you and what you perform you are walking in blind and will get no answers besides "How can you compare the 2 when they are completely different?"

Number 5, you won't know how good something is unless you try it out yourself! For example, decks of cards. Which deck is better, Sentinels or Stingers? It is always based on personal preference, which has been said over and over again throughout these forums. The 2 decks are completely different, and you will never know how they feel unless you get one and try it for yourself. If you go by someone's opinion it's how they think, and it's best to know what YOU think!

Those are just some things that come to mind when I see threads like this posted. I don't know about you, but every time I see one of these posts I die a little bit inside. Do your research and find what is right for YOU and you only.

-Casey

 

[praetoritevong]

Since another member voiced an objection to the thread from which this one was born, I will make a brief defense of this view here, because, to be honest, I have better uses of my time.

Let me first say that my opinions are my own; anyone is free to disagree with me as they wish. I don't care. If you're convincing enough, I may well change my mind, it's not impossible.

Specifically, I want to defend these sorts of opinions from people who claim that they are elitist. Someone posts one of these questions, gets an answer that doesn't fit their question, and the term elitist is thrown around.

Let me first say that the refusal to answer a question, the refusal to spoon feed information, the refusal to provide the expected answer and a harsh response are in no way indicative of elitism!

There are people with many different experiences on these forums. Here on these forums especially. There are people who run the gamut from complete beginner to professionals over several decades. That's natural, and often a good thing. So when someone, anyone asks a silly question like the above, what do you do?

Personally, I prefer to be honest. I am more than happy to answer questions. I currently have several PMs with other members discussing various questions of presentation, magic, mentalism, and so forth. Now, I'm definitely no expert, and I'm relatively young in magic. But when I get a question, I answer it properly. Thing is, when I answer a question, I want to know the person answering the question. It matters - whether a person is committed to the art, or just plain lazy. It matters, if they're ignorant and well meaning, or ignorant with a sense of entitlement.

To those who quickly prove themselves to be in the latter group, I will waste no time giving a detailed answer. I have no reservations bluntly telling someone that. Everyone asks those questions. It's the manner in which they ask it, which is critical.

Ever wonder why the top pros don't frequent these boards giving up all of their knowledge? My God, they'd have some wonderful knowledge. What I wouldn't give to spend a day with Tamariz, Ascanio, Green, etc., and similarly in mentalism circles. But it doesn't work like that. If someone has a genuine interest in magic, they should be encouraged. But that's not a free invitation. The merely curious should not receive that invitation. The art is one which should be learned through dedication and dedication alone.

Is this response elitist? I don't think so. I would understand if someone thought it was. But I don't think it's elitist. I think it's realistic. I'd rather be harsh, than to spoon feed, especially the ones that don't deserve it. How else do you learn? How else does anyone learn? Learning to learn for yourself is far more valuable than giving someone a book reference, a trick recommendation, and so forth. In fact, I have posted extensively on why such things are often detrimental! There is nothing wrong with supporting a good book. But in some circumstances, it can be negative.

I don't think it's elitist - I think it's realistic. The reality is that the world doesn't operate like a giant spoon.

Anyway. Back to reality.

 

[b_08]

CRProductions -

I'm not sure why this bothers you or anyone else for that matter. That's what forums are for. It's no different than someone reading a review before deciding to go see a movie, going to a new restaurant, a club, a play, or buying a new car.

If people can't do that on forums, then what are forums for? Seriously. Do we really talk about anything all that important here?

Besides (and I may be mistaken here) aren't you the guy that made a thread not that long ago asking the members here how to get rid of an odor in your room that you thought came from Smoke? I mean...really now...you couldn't figure out how to rid your room of an unpleasant smell? Is that any more or less of a time waster than someone asking opinions for a DVD or deck of cards?

 

[saborfang17]

Those are actually the types of questions I ask often... and this is what you had to say about me not too long ago:

Saborfang, I like how you are interested in the art of magic because you ask questions, and that is a VERY good thing! If you have any more questions, please ask!

-Casey

Maybe people can use the search bar.. But I'm not sure it's working. Only search bar I know of is the one near the cart information near the top of your screen all the time and I've tried searching for old and new threads, it always says no results, unless the name of the thread had something in common regarding the name of a media video or something. Point is, if you don't like threads like that, don't read 'em.

 

[UnknownMagician93]

The answer to every question asked on the forums is simple:


http://www.erdnase.com/

 

[Luis Vega]

The answer to every question asked on the forums is simple:


http://www.erdnase.com/

buddy...not everyone here uses cards to do magic...

 

[UnknownMagician93]

Oh you dont do card magic? Im sorry man. Here I think I got a cool link you should check out:

http://www.erdnase.com/

 

[Luis Vega]

Oh you dont do card magic? Im sorry man. Here I think I got a cool link you should check out:

http://www.erdnase.com/

I do card magic...a lot, but in real life I use all kinds of magic...

we don´t need you fancy logic here...you are not helping...

 

[UnknownMagician93]

you're flawed logical isnt helping either. Erdnase. Nuff said.

 

[saborfang17]

you're flawed logical isnt helping either. Erdnase. Nuff said.

LOL. Dan strikes again.

 

[UnknownMagician93]

^^^^^word up.

 

[Luis Vega]

I don´t think that asking "stupid questions" is wrong...to be honest...up until sometime ago I didn´t know the meaning of "Cull" and I didn´t want to ask, later I found out that is something I do a lot, but since the word in spanish is different then I didn´t realize it was the same thing...

the point is...I wanted to save all the bashing about not knowing that...and now I realize is a bad thing...

there is a lot of things begginers are not aware of...maybe for them flourishes and magic is the same thing, or at least come in the same disc and begginers don´t know how to do a proper research...it´s our responsability to help them to have some guide...

remember all of you and myself when reading those threads...we all were in the same position...

@unknown magician...

neither your narrow logic helps...I asume you only do and I mean do, since doesn´t show you actually perform, card magic for people...I´ve seen a lot of questions regarding things like an appearing cane to sponge balls and I don´t think that book can answer those kind of questions..in a real-life performance is better to know more magic than cards...Peace Out!!

 

[praetoritevong]

Oh you dont do card magic? Im sorry man. Here I think I got a cool link you should check out:

http://www.erdnase.com/

HA. Ha. H... No, wait, I'm with Luis on this one.

Those are actually the types of questions I ask often... and this is what you had to say about me not too long ago:

Maybe people can use the search bar.. But I'm not sure it's working. Only search bar I know of is the one near the cart information near the top of your screen all the time and I've tried searching for old and new threads, it always says no results, unless the name of the thread had something in common regarding the name of a media video or something. Point is, if you don't like threads like that, don't read 'em.

I can't speak for Casey, but the difference for me is the difference between these two threads:

http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?29037-Best-Non-Gimmicked-No-Set-Up-Card-Tricks

http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?29063-Well-its-been-awhile...

Disregarding the length, in one thread, the poster asks an intelligent question, comes across as very personable, receives advice humbly and is willing to do the work.

In the other, the poster asks a generic (and not terribly useful) question, only bothers to post as many words as is needed to get his question across, responds with a sense of entitlement, and wants everything on a silver platter.

If you'll read my responses in both threads, you'll see that I respond accordingly.

 

[CaseyRudd]

HA. Ha. H... No, wait, I'm with Luis on this one.



I can't speak for Casey, but the difference for me is the difference between these two threads:

http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?29037-Best-Non-Gimmicked-No-Set-Up-Card-Tricks

http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?29063-Well-its-been-awhile...

Disregarding the length, in one thread, the poster asks an intelligent question, comes across as very personable, receives advice humbly and is willing to do the work.

In the other, the poster asks a generic (and not terribly useful) question, only bothers to post as many words as is needed to get his question across, responds with a sense of entitlement, and wants everything on a silver platter.

If you'll read my responses in both threads, you'll see that I respond accordingly.

I agree with Prae 100% on this one. I feel if you ask a question on what to get, provide us with enough information to know more about you and what you like, that way we can actually help you instead of being confused. Thanks Prae for clearing this up, I was out of town all weekend and wasn't able to check up on the posts. Appreciate your help.

-Casey