Style

[Steerpike]

Let's just say that I gave that explanation as the opening to a seance I did last Halloween. At the end of the show, several people approached me wanting to talk about strange phenomena they themselves had experienced.

 

[Ben Long]

Wonderful topic, and I couldn't agree with Steerpike more--what does comparing German rave music and and grunge rock have to do with magic? What does it achieve? I'll answer that. Nothing.

If I might chime in on the style debate, I would say that there are two very good points that may be made. First, if one is a good performer, even if one has a very specific manner in which one performs, it really shouldn't matter if the trick would more naturally fit a certain performance type. If one really is a good performer, then it should not matter. A good performer should be able to adapt any trick to fit his or her style of presentation.

For example (oh boy, I love talking about myself!), I mainly do card tricks at a table setting (in which I am performing at a table--surprise, surprise) and I do so in a self-deprecating manner (think Lennart Green meets Ricky Jay meets some skinny Jewish kid). I openly admit that card magic is the most useless inane invention second only to symbolic logic (which I also do in my spare time), but I stress that as with all performing arts (and all art, for that matter), card magic carries some resonance and truth about the world (and all that sappy jazz). I use cards to demonstrate everything--math, philosophy, science, social issues, the nature of language, etc. A lot of my work relies on timing for effect and connecting stupid tricks to reality. So take one of my favorite effects--Cold--by Mr. Dee Christopher. It's a mentalism trick with a decidedly eerie undertone, or that's at least how it's marketed. I'm not an eerie person when I perform--I'm a nice, slightly absent minded guy. But I make the effect work for me. It's all in how I present it. I make it more real by connecting it to a tell in gambling. It's that easy.

Now, the other side of the argument is that there are tricks that simply do not work in any other context than the one for which they were created. Take, for example, Wounded, by Mr. B. Smith. Because of the inherent nature of that trick, I would not perform it and I don't think I could think of a reasonable explanation that would make it fit in my act. In essence, it is what it is. So when I might say that something is not my style, I mean that I cannot think of a single context into which it would fit [for me/I].

It has nothing to do with the impossibility of the trick, or the shock value, or the difficulty, or the sleights, or the gimmicks. It's about how I maintain consistency throughout my performance. I think that consistency is one of the most overlooked elements in any magic performance. It's not the same as being predictable. Consistency is what makes one a credible performer and person.

 

[Randomwrath]

Let's just say that I gave that explanation as the opening to a seance I did last Halloween. At the end of the show, several people approached me wanting to talk about strange phenomena they themselves had experienced.

I can see why.
Anyone else have a style to share with us? This thread's a really good way to analyze your character and help your performance improve.

 

[Steerpike]

EDIT: By the way, what sort of tricks do you use as the Shadowlander? I doubt pulling out a pack of cards and asking them to pick one would aid this character particularly...

I have a few card tricks I use for strolling magic. I'm not perpetually serious, so when I'm at a bar I show a lighter, sarcastic side to my personality.

But honestly, I'm pretty tired of cards. I have about a half-dozen card tricks I do and I have no intention of learning anymore.

Nevertheless, even doing a card trick I still try to weave in a superstitious tone. An ACR isn't just an ambitious card, it's a harmless demonstration of the True Name principle. A playing card is innocuous enough that I can demonstrate the phenomenon without putting anyone at risk.

 

[Ben Long]

I have a few card tricks I use for strolling magic. I'm not perpetually serious, so when I'm at a bar I show a lighter, sarcastic side to my personality.

But honestly, I'm pretty tired of cards. I have about a half-dozen card tricks I do and I have no intention of learning anymore.

Nevertheless, even doing a card trick I still try to weave in a superstitious tone. An ACR isn't just an ambitious card, it's a harmless demonstration of the True Name principle. A playing card is innocuous enough that I can demonstrate the phenomenon without putting anyone at risk.

Let me ask you a question--

Do you actually believe any what you say? I mean, do you actually believe in the "true name" principle or whatever?

 

[Steerpike]

Let me ask you a question--

Do you actually believe any what you say? I mean, do you actually believe in the "true name" principle or whatever?

Let's just say I like to know a little bit about a lot. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?

 

[Ben Long]

Let's just say I like to know a little bit about a lot. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter?

No. No it does not.

 

[blahblah]

oh dear... my style (ive not made it yet)

okay well...

tricks I like - I dunno, but I like stuff where it screams at you "THIS IS UTTERLY UNMAGICAL", I like effects that are *normal* like where you dont do 5 funny moves and then bam bam bam you find their card, but like (this is an effect I created - wooo go me) a person thinks of a card, you have empty hands, you slam your right hand on your left and theirs a card, its not their thought of card, you take it and put it in between their hands, it changes into their card.

so effects I like?

floating deck (AoA)
ultimate rip off (AoA)
two card transpo (from royal road)
my effect above
smoke (I dont perform this)
most coin magic (I dont perform much coin stuff though)
control
randomwraths Idea is awsome so : wounded
re-capped
flicker (doug makenzie)
the lattarel palm, I know this isnt a trick but this sleight is awsome
flourishes

and that kinda thing

character - okay, I suppose im a mix of wayne houchin, daniel madison and derren brown, I suppose im a bit dark, but funny/sarcastic, kind of like my magic is a curse, so when I perform and I am going to do this more and more, kind of watch them, so they feel a bit weird. this isnt a normal card trick, this is more than that.
so I suppose a bit cold, a bit dark, but also some sarcastic jokes.
I myself find jay sankey type "funny" completely crap (just my opinion) so I like the kind of daniel madison type thing, dont think im a complete copy of him, I just like his style.

can I also say, people saying "oh just be yourself, dont have a character" need to realise that you NEED a character, even just saying "okay and for the card to come up I take the invisable card and put it on the top" have a character. when the artists say be yourself, they mean your character is you, like me doing funny magic wouldnt work (or thats what I think).

I might add in more later

 

[Zeedub81]

I wouldn't say I have much of a style, but I don't like cheesy tricks (turning a green beenie baby into a purple one, etc.).
I sort of go by the mentality, "Just show them the dang trick," but it's not like I'm silent, but usually only talk when necessary.
I like the insane, criss angel-david blaine, impossible kind of tricks, which will give a reputation to do the impossible. Now I don't say I have 'powers' or whatever, but I let the audience decide. If they think I have powers, I don't say anything, and I let them think that(I love it when they think I'm the antichrist or whatever). If they think it's all sleight of hand, then yes, it is all sleight of hand.
Some people I like:
Daniel Madison
David Blaine
Jason Statham (love the transporter movies)
Wayne Houchin

 

[Steerpike]

I hate to see this languishing on page 4. Is there anybody out there who would like to open up a description of their style to analysis and critique? You can't improve if you don't ask for help.

 

[adjones]

I hate to see this languishing on page 4. Is there anybody out there who would like to open up a description of their style to analysis and critique? You can't improve if you don't ask for help.

I'll make it quick, but I'm game. I worry less about the effect, and less about the presentation than most- for me, it's about having fun with the audience. Not the crap about connecting with them way deep down, I just have fun. I make jokes about them, they make jokes about me, and we just have a good time. I've messed up a few times, but the thing is... 9/10 they still clap for me right afterwards.

So bash me for not worrying as much about the effect and presentation as I should- I guess I do worry about the presentation, in the since that I'm trying to make the audience have fun.

Oh, and just some things that I've noticed in performances in the past (I honestly don't know if it's still true) is that I used to, and may still, have a boring voice, a little bit of a monotone, and I'm not as loud as I'm used to be. I'm going to try to at least get an audio clip of a performance tomorrow so I can judge myself on that.

So I know I didn't do as good of a job as I should have, but critique away. Give me your thoughts, advice- I'm lookin' forward to reading it!

 

[toyrobot]

I'll make it quick, but I'm game. I worry less about the effect, and less about the presentation than most- for me, it's about having fun with the audience. Not the crap about connecting with them way deep down, I just have fun. I make jokes about them, they make jokes about me, and we just have a good time. I've messed up a few times, but the thing is... 9/10 they still clap for me right afterwards.

So bash me for not worrying as much about the effect and presentation as I should- I guess I do worry about the presentation, in the since that I'm trying to make the audience have fun.

Oh, and just some things that I've noticed in performances in the past (I honestly don't know if it's still true) is that I used to, and may still, have a boring voice, a little bit of a monotone, and I'm not as loud as I'm used to be. I'm going to try to at least get an audio clip of a performance tomorrow so I can judge myself on that.

So I know I didn't do as good of a job as I should have, but critique away. Give me your thoughts, advice- I'm lookin' forward to reading it!

That's more of a philosophy than a style. What sort of tricks do you use? What's your patter like? What do you do in the off-beat between tricks? Etcetera? There's not much to say about it other than you sound like a basic entertainer someone might hire at a party, and if that's where you want to be then good job. Personally, I think any magician can benefit from connecting even just a little with their audience. It's what separates you from doing magic AT someone, versus doing magic WITH them. Most audiences enjoy being challenged to some degree, and enjoy feeling like this performance is special to them. It's a shared experience you can reflect back on.

But, hey, if you're cracking jokes and everyone's smiling, then you're connecting on some level, right?

 

[The Tumbleweed]

"Do you sell cotton thread? I need 100% cotton thread"
"What's wrong with polyester?"
"It hurts my eye"

You forgot my name?

 

[aznofspades]

I hate to see this languishing on page 4. Is there anybody out there who would like to open up a description of their style to analysis and critique? You can't improve if you don't ask for help.

Yea!!

Ok.

Trick Selection:

I like tricks that directly involve the spectator. their hands, their coins their thoughts etc. I like simple effects kinda like how David Blaine says in his book how you should be able to describe the effect in one sentence or less.

I used to be into flourishing and old habits die hard so I have a little bit of flash in my card tricks. A spring, a fan, pirouette, simple stuff that I just do completely without thinking.

Character:

I'm an asian teenager and I act ghetto sometimes.

When I perform, I exaggerate it.

Imagine taking Tyler Durden, Eminem and Heath Ledger's Joker mixing them up (but I think they already have a number of similarities) and making it Asian and having it do a magic trick.

I'm a kinda crazy, hyper and random kid with A.D.D. Along with a deeper purpose, that I'm not quite sure of what it is yet. But I'm aware of myself so I make jokes at my own expense and its all not too serious. (Why so serious?)

Presentation:

If anyone's seen Fight Club or the Dark Knight or listened to Eminem, I make several references to them. Not as a major part of the presentation but just a quick line here and there.

Basically the deeper meaning. How we should: Live our lives. (not how to live, but that you SHOULD just live)

I also jokingly get up in people's faces about being Asian. Like I do the Copper and Silver transpo talking about Bruce Lee and coin snatching.

Don't assume anything, but I can actually kinda rap, and sometimes I spit a verse during an off beat. You know how in the 3 Card Monte (a game of hanky poo, the blacks for me the reds for you)? I wrote a rap about it and that's what I say while I'm tossing the cards.

Many presentations involve a sucker explanation (one so outrageous they know its a joke)that just sets them up for being fooled. I have thought about doing these, but I'm thinking of doing something like what Wayne Houchin talked about in a Daily Update: actually tipping something basic and then going ahead with the trick. Like he said he would tip a French Drop and then do Sinful. Sorta like the Bruce Lee thing up there ^^

I'm thinking of tipping the old Pendulum trick and talking about how we subconsciously give away the truth. Then a little discussion about poker tells. And finally stigmata. What do you guys think of that?

Steerpike and everyone else, I would love to hear your criticisms!

 

[Randomwrath]

I hate to see this languishing on page 4. Is there anybody out there who would like to open up a description of their style to analysis and critique? You can't improve if you don't ask for help.

Hold it. You're back? Woah, I don't know if you're coming or going at the moment...let's hope the mods have made a definite decision this time, eh?

 

[toyrobot]

You forgot my name?

I am so sorry. You know I love you. I've got you committed to memory now, Bumblebee.

 

[Steerpike]

Oh, and just some things that I've noticed in performances in the past (I honestly don't know if it's still true) is that I used to, and may still, have a boring voice, a little bit of a monotone, and I'm not as loud as I'm used to be. I'm going to try to at least get an audio clip of a performance tomorrow so I can judge myself on that.

The solution to that is to learn how to project. Breathe from the diaphragm and resonate in the chest or head. You won't need much volume because your voice will carry better.

Steerpike and everyone else, I would love to hear your criticisms!

If I had to sum it up in a single word, I'd say you were something of a huckster. From the description of your presentation, I would assume it's done very tongue-in-cheek and with a bit of the air of a wily con man. If not, I suggest you experiment a bit with it as you seem to emphasize skill and deception over mystery. And with the element of mystery being down-played, you need to bolster the performance with an entertaining persona.

That in mind, I would advise you to look into the history of con artistry and study gambling cheats. Look into Sal Piacente's work and find some biographies of The Yellow Kid and Count Victor Lustig.

 

[Morgan B]

Wow - many of the heavies of our forum in this thread, nice to see. Interesting topic for sure.

Perhaps I am off base here, but I think the saying, "it is not my style" - is another way of saying, "that effect doesn't come close to the standards of magic I want, or the message I want to give my audience with what I believe magic is".

I would have a hard time saying what my trick selection is - it would be like asking me what kind of clothes I buy - and I would say, I buy the clothes that I like and need...according to my style. You see, I think all the things you have listed in Tricks, Character, and Presentation need to harmonize.

I wouldn't do Thread, not because it sucks...but because I don't want to pull thread out of my eye at the dinner table...NOR do I believe it is what my magic represents. There is a message to every trick...in what you are claiming - and I don't know what kind of door pulling thread from my eye socket will accomplish...and I don't want to. So, the effects I select allow me to enhance my character and through a linked presentation.

My presentations help me define my "character", truthfully my character IS me - not the bad parts of me, but the parts I am proud of. Sometimes I am making people laugh, other times I want them to think about a deep topic, other times just relate to a universal truth - but I use my presentations to allow them to get to know me...SO, I am not presenting my magic...I am connecting. When I am done, they have not seen a presentation, but I have met them and they have me. I have made new friends, and shared an experience - which is what we all want.

So, I am sorry that I couldn't make them mutually exclusive, as I sure you would have liked - but my choice on why one thing works and why one thing doesn't is wrapped around my "Standards of Deception" and my goals.

When I approach a group, I know they have preconcieved notions on magic, some right and some wrong, when I leave - I want them to think about magic the way I do. I can only do that by example.

SO I pledge - I will not do an effect JUST for a reaction - as reactions are temporary, but creating a memorable experience makes me a story to their children. It is funny how I meet people that have seen a magician live, sometimes only months before they meet me - and can't remember HIS name at all!! However, they won't see me for months or even years - and remember me as I pass them on the street...name and all, getting excited on the street, like they just bumped into a celebrity. My friends and lady always get a chuckle, but it is one way that lets me know I am doing my job.

I also pledge that I will not do an effect that I can have people relate to or see it as more than "a trick", that they can see the reason behind the magic - not just the trick as a puzzle. This is hard, because sometimes some GREAT effects come out that I know will get the "OHHHH" reaction, but have to think about the "how does this fit in" before I do it. It is this type of thinking that prevents guys like Eugene Burger from doing "sponge balls".


I pledge many things towards what makes my magic high end - Tyler Wilson once used a quote, I am not sure from where - but he said, "You can judge a magician, not by what he chooses to do...but what he chooses NOT to do and why".

This quote might be a nice thing to lead into - so let me start.

I don't do linking ring - not even the small ones - because I can't justify the use of the prop in a way that allows it to not be suspect. Also, many people know how it is done, so the over exposure can lead to awkward situations....however, I do believe they can be handled in a way to avoid that - so really, it just comes down to justifying their existance in a logical way...not a joking way, like - they are bracelets for giants or an average sized c**k ring...yeah, I wrote that.

So - to keep on topic, but to understand more why we don't do something, rather than why we do - what do you NOT do and why?

 

[aznofspades]

If I had to sum it up in a single word, I'd say you were something of a huckster. From the description of your presentation, I would assume it's done very tongue-in-cheek and with a bit of the air of a wily con man. If not, I suggest you experiment a bit with it as you seem to emphasize skill and deception over mystery. And with the element of mystery being down-played, you need to bolster the performance with an entertaining persona.

That in mind, I would advise you to look into the history of con artistry and study gambling cheats. Look into Sal Piacente's work and find some biographies of The Yellow Kid and Count Victor Lustig.

I like your word choice

huckster (never heard that one before)- One who uses aggressive, showy, and sometimes devious methods to promote or sell a product.

Kinda sounds like me. For example, recently my club at school was trying to sell raffle tickets to raise money for charity and I decided to try doing the 3 Card Monte to get a crowd around our table. NOTE: We were not taking money for the 3 Card Monte, it was just away to get attention.

Tongue-in-cheek- Meant or expressed ironically or facetiously.

I think this is a good way to describe it. Like I'm just messing around, BUT I still respect the magic moment. (Just like Darwin Ortiz recommends) And I definitely appreciate the word choice. Because saying something like "sarcastic" I think would not have been accurate. Because in sarcasm, usually you usually have a sense of superiority over the audience, and I also am bad at being sarcastic. I either overdo it and sound like a jerk or under do it and they don't realize it is sarcasm.

Wily conmen- makes me think of Pop Haydn, Whit Haydn's character.

I love the Pop Haydn character. Whit says that he doesn't do any cons except for the shell game occasionally. So as a conman, I know I don't have to have every trick as a con. I don't do any cons except for the 3 Card Monte and a Coin under Watch or Card to Spec's Pocket w/ a tiny pickpocketing theme. BUT when I do the card to spec's pocket I show them how a pickpocket would do it by bumping into them. Then I do it under "test conditions" where I have them hold my wrists and I make their card vanish overhere and then appear in their pocket.

Skill and deception over mystery

I don't think that I show skill and deception over mystery. The off hand flourishes are extremely downplayed. Or did you mean hidden skill. Like sleight of hand? If skill was over mystery, then I think I would be the kinda person that is always challenging his spectator's. I know my sleight of hand is NOT strong enough to take serious examination. Like if they were constantly burning me and I had no misdirection or presentation, I would definitely get caught. If that is NOT what you mean by skill over mystery please explain.

There are also certain tricks that I do where I try to hand the power over to the spectator (Jay Sankey) For example after a gag where I fail to read a spec's mind I do a multiple card selection routine. Then I take the deck and give it to the spectator and have them shuffle it. And then go into Sankey's mind over matter invisible deck routine. I really like this routine because it is all about the specs and they do everything (shuffle the cards, turn one over, and then the rest of the audience generates their card) The only thing I do is spread the cards. With a trick like that, you don't want to have skill over mystery.

So like I said before, I try to milk the suspense and build up the mystery. I don't try to cheapen it with the comedy. It's supposed to be like Laugh, laugh. Amazing. Instead of wait, wait, wait. Amazing. (Gerry Mccambridge) The job of the comedy is to make the normally boring parts (picking the cards or shuffling) entertaining instead.

Thanks for the advice. Just like Morgician said, I want them to remember me more than my tricks and a stronger persona would do that.

Studying other conmen would help me by giving me some esoteric knowledge and by helping me develop my character. And I find them really interesting. I love the little stories used in David Blaine's book and I loved Ocean's 11 and the Italian Job. I've heard about Matchstick Men. Anyone know if it's any good? Any other suggestions?

I saw a thread where it was like what do you say when someone asks you "How did you do that?" I say cuz "I"M A NINJA NIN NINJA!" (nighiga!) Some people might say I'm insulting their intelligence by giving them a BS answer, but keep in mind my character. I don't take myself seriously and try to be very easy going. I want them all going away at the end feeling like we're best friends having connected on a personal level.

And I personally think that a morally challenged modern-day ninja would be extremely talented at hustling people.

Thank you for your advice.
This has been a very good exercise in learning about myself.

Any more?

 

[Decksterity]

woah slow that brain-train down honky, this is a lotta text for a one guy to read.