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Thanks guys. To me this is an important topic and worthy of constant re-examination. I think the reason it becomes heated is because of the implications if one or another position became prevalent. How would it affect the way we think about our material and in how we find material. Would it...

I understood that. (And respect that - sore thumbs here). However I wanted to clarify the importance of first insuring we are talking about the same conditions (which clearly we weren't) before moving on to any disagreements on those conditions.

We can't agreto disagree when. Have yet to agree we are looking at the same issue. That is the biggest problem we face now. Not talking about hack stock or classic. Talking about obscure and discovered being taken by poachers. And you shared that you have never gone through the jungle. Your...

Again, missed point. This has nothing to do with people doing tricks someone has released. If I put it out and you see me do it, its yours. This has NOTHING to do with laypeople figuring out tricks. It has to do with the perception that all magicians do the same things. I'm not...

How is what I'm suggesting limiting magic? Using other peoples acts as the source of your work creates a world where everyone is doing the same five tricks - or variations there of. THAT is a little box! There is so much magic published that its a shame we see the same tired ideas over and...

Draven, I can't let this go because you continually miss the critical elements of the argument (confusing claasic/hack with rare, discovered). Perhaps it is my fault for being unclear. But I care about the future of magic and I would hate for someone to pass their actions on what has been...

Don't know if the quote feature on blackberry will make this more or less confusing but here it goes. 1) While you (and Louis) may think a novel presentation will set you apart from the crowd - the real world does not work that way. Had a story related from a major cruise ship booker...

I suppose if someones act consisted of only hackneyed or even classic material they would feel that way. And I'm not suggesting one cannot ethically perform all pervasive tricks - linking rings, blockhead, triumph - these are things every mystery entertainer should know as a matter of...

There is a great solution in the ron wilson book. Buy it. Learn it. AND you'll have another 20 or so really great tricks to work on, too.

And that, draven, is a cop out. There is plenty of fodder for real debate here - most recently the notion I hjave proposed that tricks are hiding everywhere and ready to be picked, the onlt difference seems to be coveting them because someone else has already picked them. Is that right...

I understand your point. You're just wrong :) here is the difference. If I discover a trick that no one else that I know of is doing, and I polish it into something special it doesn't matter if I do it exactly as written or not. Its in published source and I found it through my own...

Christopher, forgot to add; I am also perplexed how someone can learn to develop their own style/approach whatever when the are on a steady diet of other peoples styles and approaches. Seems to me, using a medium that divorces itself from other magicians performance choices makes it easier to...

Christopher, I assure you I am not trying to be obtuse. I and many others in the magic world hold this position. You suggest again and again that if you change the presentation, it is some how ok. Is it? Card to watermelon done to poetry is still card to watermelon when done with...

1) The exclusive coterie is not a method. No one cares about methods but magicians. I make a card appear in a watermelon. You make a card appear in a watermelon. We use different methods. The audience walks away thinking - those two guys did the same trick. No one is suggesting you can't do...

William, That's not what I said. If you see someone perform a piece and that performer has released it commercially, of course you can buy it and performit. However, seeing me perform a piece I dug up in an old book is not fair game simply because that piece was in a book. You are using...

If the reason you want to do the trick is because you saw him do it, then yes - absolutely you MUST ask. Everything is in your post is an attempt at rationalization. There are thousands of tricks in thousands of books you waiting for a hard working performer to breathe life into them...